Thursday, June 24, 2010

Young kids. They blow up so fast, don’t they.

This delightful children’s song produced by an anti-Israeli TV station for children is so touching.

A good time, perhaps, to be reminded of a point well made by then opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu back in 2006 when for a brief period of time the rockets being fired into Israel were coming from Lebanon instead of Gaza:

_Quote Here is a simple truth: If our enemies lay down their arms, there will be no more war. But if Israel lays down its arms, there will be no more Israel. For the crux of the conflict is their desire to destroy us.

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22 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

That indeed is a fine example of a muslim interpretation of the globally accepted "welfare and best interest of children" principle. Boggles the mind I'd say....
Bez

6/24/2010 12:14:00 pm  
Blogger Mark said...

Sick bastards! This is something that everyone who thinks Israel and Palestine are moral equivalents needs to watch. As said by Golder Meir: "Peace will come to the Middle East when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."

6/24/2010 12:31:00 pm  
Anonymous Kpete said...

Why is none of this state sponsored child abuse reported in the MSM? Oh thats right, that would be fair and balanced. Can't be having that.

6/24/2010 03:53:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is actually no such thing as "Islamic children, Hindu children, Christian children etc..." children aren't born as anything. It is the corruption of families and the tradition of bowing before spooks which detrimentally affects them. Sad, vile and hideous.

Chris R.

6/24/2010 04:09:00 pm  
Anonymous Mark Hubbard said...

IP theft alert.

The article aside, that's a great title Peter. I just know I'm going to shamelessly steal it one day.

6/24/2010 06:32:00 pm  
Blogger libertyscott said...

It is telling that so much of the MSM ignores this when confronting Hamas, or the anti-Western protest mobsters who are willfully blind to the violence of their side.

6/24/2010 08:23:00 pm  
Blogger Craig Milmine said...

Curses! That song is now stuck in my head. Scarily effective.

6/24/2010 09:35:00 pm  
Blogger FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

Did you hear about the Islamist in the Ukraine who slaughtered a 5 year old boy as if he were a goat?

6/25/2010 11:32:00 am  
Blogger Sand said...

PC and others, I am staggered to notice how your analysis of this pathetic situation consistently ends one-sided.

Peter, you have been (and still are) a mentor to me with your libertarian ideas, your sense of justice and objectivity. But I am quite shocked by this fierce and repeated posts on the borderline with hatred; how one could pretend judging such misery?

It is IMO essential when one is trying to analyse objectively to reconsider one's point of view (c.f.“check your premises”). Being objective means also being capable of shifting one's geographical, historical, visual, semantic or cultural field.
To remain objective it is fundamental to study and [try to] understand Muslim culture as any other one, with its delights and its horrors. Codes, symbolic and other social and cultural manifestations can be difficult to grasp by one who hasn't been part of its life-long conditioning (or at least has committed to some serious ethnological and anthropological studies of it). Similarly the average occidental person can't objectively understand acid-burnt women in India, paedophilia in antic Greece, machete tribal killings in east Africa and cannibalism in Papu NewGuinea, and neither can the Palestinian understand with objectivity the mass murders and colonialist wars committed by occidental nations. Note that “understanding” here is a concept dissociated from “legitimating”.

Hamas are not Palestinians. This video is Hamas propaganda, not Palestinian's thoughts. Devotion to the family and to god, spirit and body, is indeed an important part of the muslim culture and religion. We both share a common opinion about this alienation, and I agree, these cultural sides of the human race must evolved. We both know that blinkers are using parts of a culture to enhance their propaganda, don't we ? And here this is strictly the case. It doesn't mean that Palestinian are monsters. They are blinked, lost and they live in fear. They try to survive in a two side oppression. It is a real misery over there. And you would be surprised to discover how many of the Palestinian peoples fear deeply but also hate Hamas. And this fact is not said in any side, in any form of propaganda. And don't tell me about the official elections... We both know here again.
Blinkers go with all cultures and their conditioning, not only with Islam. Spanish Inquisitors, Hitler Youth, Kamikazes, Enola Gay pilots weren't Muslim. In Yugoslavia, Muslims suffered more form Christian atrocities than the opposite (if a comparison can ever be made); same deal in 1982 in Sabra et Chatila.
Peter, in spite of my respect and friendship for you, I think your posts are voluntarily (and disgustingly) ambiguous in their one-sided legitimation of Israel oppressive politics and its horrors. Contrarily to what Netanyahu suggests, whatever horrors one side is committing (be relieved I am not trying to justify Hamas and other fanatics' atrocities), legitimating the other side violent (and state-supported) response in legitimating an endless cycle.

I wish to conclude with this very light anecdote. When I lived in New Zealand, one of my neighbour told us (to Pierre and myself) that he doesn't like us as we he doesn't trust any French ass since what happen to the Rainbow Warrior. Reality is that majority of French people hated what happened. We were deeply ashamed. But yes, we didn't show that much unfortunately.
Hopefully when this gentleman told me that, I didn't thought that Kiwis were closed-minded. And I still don't, after they empty our house and finally “threw us” out ;-) Because I am only talking of a bunch of few people here. Not about 4 millions of human beings.

6/26/2010 01:38:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah right PC.

http://newnews.co.uk/israel-lebanon-new/images/casualties/index.html

Young kids. They live so fast, don't they.

And yes, you are right Sand.

Ed.

6/27/2010 11:02:00 am  
Anonymous A. Jardine said...

Sand,

One can try to understand another person or culture; understand the contextual reasons why they think or feel something, and yet at the same time condemn the ideas upon which those thoughts and feelings are based.

Humans are conceptual animals, meaning we interpret things according to our basic ideas and the dominant philosophy of the culture we live in. As such, it makes sense that a Palestinian would be moved by that video. If asked why, they would adduce their religion, their culture and their conflict with Israel. All this would be 'understandable' and yet one can analyze the ideas it is based on as such and identify them as wrong.

Philosophically, the ideas in that video are pure collectivism. It explicitly promotes the idea that the individual's life has no meaning outside of group and religious duty. That makes it straightforwardly evil.

As to the issue of Hamas vis-a-vis ordinary Palestinians, it's important to keep in mind the broad support they receive, particularly in elections.

6/27/2010 12:53:00 pm  
Blogger Sand said...

A. Jardine,

I agree on mostly but not on this assertion :
"As to the issue of Hamas vis-a-vis ordinary Palestinians, it's important to keep in mind the broad support they receive, particularly in elections".

Israel is not innocent in the raise of Hamas to the quasi “single-party” status it has today. It has indeed fed this growth with its aggressive policy, could it be unfortunate, or worth planned. Palestinian People have few other alternatives ! One should not believe elections results (and keep in mind elections there have little in common with occidental ones) are an accurate image of a People’s state of mind. Between militia, an ambiguous police force and the pressure of various international interests and lobbies around, majority of Palestinians keep their true opinions for themselves and follow the stream.
Propaganda on either sides are careful in hiding that! Israel true objectives are nonetheless obvious, it has no intentions of freeing Palestinians from Hamas oppression.

Hamas propaganda is evil and collectivist ? Of course it is, no discussion here. But being objective requires denunciation the evil collectivist propaganda which is quite obvious on the other side as well !

6/27/2010 05:52:00 pm  
Blogger Sand said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

6/27/2010 06:25:00 pm  
Blogger Sand said...

For whom wants to have a real view on Gaza and its real people (sorry in Arab or French only):

http://vimeo.com/11463310

http://vimeo.com/11547160

This one in English :
http://vimeo.com/12130348

It is right indeed that the tunnels not only give them basic food. It is right that there is an heavy gun and golden traffic in the underground for the benefit of some selected people. But simple and real people (majority) have no life, no house, no sleep. Yes, they follow a stream and this is it. In this kind of misery it is what we call survival.

6/27/2010 06:34:00 pm  
Blogger Sand said...

Just to put things in perspective, to elude...

What about the idea of collectivism in the fact a government wants millions of people to be reunited (all by themselves) in a bounded country to share a culture and a unique religion ?

Hope this help.

6/27/2010 07:47:00 pm  
Blogger Mark said...

@ Sand: Let's assume for the sake of argument that everything you say (about the Palestinians misery, etc) is correct.

Your non-sequiter is in asserting that this is somehow Israel's fault and Israel's responsibility.

Hamas and the like want to obliterate Israel; that point you seem to concede. If by Israel defending themselves and ensuring their survival means there are innocent civilian casualties in Palenstine, that is not Israel's fault. No more then civilian German deaths WWII was the fault of the Allies.

If Israel were to respond to them in weakness (which is what you seem to want) and Hamas and the like were to acheive their goal and drive Israel into the sea and control the region, do you really think Palestinians would be free and happy under the control of Hamas - the same people who encourage their childern to death worship, as clearly shown in this video?

If so, I wonder what sort of "libertarian" you are....

6/28/2010 12:23:00 pm  
Blogger Sand said...

Mark, you greatly misunderstood me. I never said Palestinian situation is Israeli's fault. I just mentioned their government responsibilities : it doesn't mean a 100% implication nor Israelis people participation, as I usually separate people thoughts from their governments actions... as a real objective mind would.

I have never talked about being a supporter of Hamas and I also truly believe Palestinian's culture needs to evolved without Hamas oppression and atrocities.

I am here very surprised about these binary assertions. So please, take a second look at what I said before going further.

And FYI I don't consider myself as a "libertarian" but as a liberty lover and seeker. I only eat the bread I bake at home and I am not interested in buying any other.
Of course, I share a lot of ideas with libertarians. But definitely not all.

6/28/2010 01:46:00 pm  
Blogger Sand said...

Oh, and Mark, you seems to believe that I hold a pro-Palestinian position in this debate. I sincerely don't. I just believe that Israelis and Palestinian deserve to live happily and freely from any oppression. This is also what these two communities have in common but unfortunately the world nation refuses to accept it, because of lobbying, world vulgarisation, blinkers from Israeli's government and blinkers from Hamas. I don't see any moral in the murders and murderers from one side or another and I am highly scared if you can, like you all seems.

Just go there. Go in Israel, talk with the people, observe and watch by yourself. Go in Palestine, share with people. And if you're lucky, try to penetrate the Gaza strip, cause yes it's hard, and not for no reason. You would be all very surprise by what you'll see and hear. But please, stop sharing a disgusting one-sided propaganda, because you're not helping Liberty nor your cause.

6/28/2010 04:11:00 pm  
Blogger Mark said...

@ Sand: No Sand, I don't think you're pro Palestinian, anymore than Neville Chamberlain was pro-Fascist. I'm just looking at the practical consequences of what you're advocating.

Being objective doesn't mean refusing to make a judgement. It means you must make judgements, but judgements based on facts, not emotion.

I've seen no evidence that the goals of the Israeli gov't in this context are anything but self defence and survival - and you're presented nothing to make me even question that.

Citing how miserable the Palestinians are doesn't make your point. The issue is why they are miserable, and who or what is responsible for that.

6/29/2010 10:10:00 am  
Blogger Sand said...

Hi Mark, I agree with what you say here.

Various sources, including United Press International or author Gérard Chaliand have claimed that Hamas' early growth had been supported by the Mossad as a "counterbalance to the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)". The French investigative newspaper Le Canard enchaîné (an excellent alternative paper who never lost against any defamation accusation but which did not gave here their source for security reasons) claimed that Shin Bet had also supported Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO and Fatah. It stated that this was an attempt to give "a religious slant to the conflict, in order to make the West believe that the conflict was between Jews and Muslims", perhaps in order to support the controversial thesis of a "clash of civilizations". In a statement to the Israeli Parliament's (the Knesset) Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Monday February 12, 2007, Israeli Prime minister Ehud Olmert said "Netanyahu established Hamas, gave it life, freed Sheikh Yassin and gave him the opportunity to blossom".

Not having proof doesn't mean that this is not true. And yes, unfortunately I don't have any. Israel government is also playing on very high levels of propaganda and disinformation. You can't have a binary view. It is more complicated.
During WWII for eg. nobody (including Germans) knew what was happening in the camps.

In 2005, Hamas announced its intention to launch an experimental TV channel, "Al-Aqsa TV". The station was launched on January 7, 2006, less than three weeks before the Palestinian legislative elections. It has shown television programs, including some children's television, which deliver anti-semitic messages like the video posted by Peter. Hamas people are not Palestinian, they are corpuscular cells which disseminate terror on people.

About my own certitudes : I have several closed friends (and a close family member), all non-interested and neutral in their opinions and positions who have been recently in Palestine and Israel for journalistic or humanitarian purposes. One did penetrate the Gaza strip. I believe them and their testimonials.
No one give them the opportunity to speak and to show the real face of Palestine in this binary propaganda. The French government has his own interest conflict. Hamas doesn't want people to realise about this disgusting oppression nor Israel state about their real objectives. And that is a sad reality.

6/29/2010 11:56:00 am  
Blogger Sand said...

BTW if you need any example about Israel (not Israelis) real motivation, I guess this one would be largely explicit :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

6/29/2010 12:10:00 pm  
Blogger Sand said...

I would have a very simple question to Peter : What would happen to the Palestinians without the Hamas ?

My turn to advocate.
Here is a simple truth : If Hamas lays down its arms, there will be no more Palestine.

And this is my reproach to PC. Of course I deeply agree with him about this video, who wouldn't ? I deeply agree on nearly all the judgements on Islam fanatic's atrocities he made on this blog. I agree on a lot with his excellent analyses. But I disagree on the fact that he doesn't show the same critical eyes on the other side. It is like a black out. For me it is also a form of propaganda and it is not an objective way in its intention to tell and describe History.

Hope I am more clear here.

6/29/2010 05:26:00 pm  

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