In due deference to this being Islam Awareness Week, Mr Perigo has conveniently recycled his comments in today's edition of Victoria University's student magazine (just in case anyone missed them first time around) and he's responded to criticisms of Islam being so characterised--responded in characteristically combative fashion.If you object to that characterisation, then let me hear you defend the atrocities committed in the name of this stinking, stupid, life-hating superstition--this so-called religion of peace; let me hear you defend Sharia and Jihad and Dhimmitude. As Perigo notes,
Most tellingly, not once do [Islam's defenders] even pretend to condemn the beheaders, the car-bombers, the suicide pilots or any other variant of stupid, stinking, superstitious terrorist in his ranks. There are well over a billion people in the world now in thrall to this barbarous superstition, and, as noted previously, it is the world’s fastest-growing throwback to the theological ooze. Just imagine if all these folk were committed to enlightened secularism, reason and freedom! What a different world it would be! Instead, they genuflect five times a day to a non-existent god and a paedophile prophet, and surrender their independent judgement to the dictates of bloodthirsty, lice-ridden old mullahs for whom soap and toothpaste are western bourgeois decadences.It's Islam Awareness Week. Perhaps Islam's defenders could use this week to recognise the true nature of that which they defend. Meanwhile, the rest of us can use it to pour derision on the stinking superstition and the stone age culture it reifies.
UPDATE 1: Looks like the Salient server is struggling to cope. If the link to Lindsay's latest isn't working for you, then the same editorial is posted here at SOLO. But do visit the Salient site later and enjoy all the deliciously vituperative reactions to a spade being called a spade.
UPDATE 2: May I challenge those who haven't read Lindsay's conclusion to breathe through their nose for a moment and then make the appropriate response:
“Let the local Muslims renounce and denounce terrorism, Jihad and Sharia Law, loudly and unambiguously. Let them pledge respect for the rights of non-Muslims to practise their religion, or no religion (like me). I grant them that right; let them show that they reciprocate. If we’re going to have some sort of touchy-feely Kumbaya week, let’s all get together, hold hands, and say in unison, ‘I disagree with what you say, but defend to the death your right to say it.’What rational, life-loving person would be against such a declaration, I wonder?
“That’s worth dedicating a week to!”
UPDATE 3: You can listen here to the Perigovan delivery of this Islamic Awareness Week editorial as delivered on Radio Pacific. It's a bit scratchy, but to the point. [2.5MB. Courtesy Julian]
UPDATE 4: An obviously gentle soul has sent through this artist's impression of Perigo taking up arms against Islamic Totalitarianism.
34 comments:
Perigo, it appears, has lost any pretence to sanity. How he thinks his hateful, vitriolic rant would resonate with anyone other than similarly hate-obsessed nutbars is entirely beyond me.
The argument is all bombast and invective, with tiresome typecasting and insult added in for useless effect. I really wonder about your haste to hitch up to Perigo's bandwagon here, PC, given that it clearly fell off the rails some time ago.
I don't feel any strong yen to rebut anything Perigo says, as the diatribe effectively buries itself, but it says a lot for Perigo's 'objectivity' that a polite, fairly worded invitation to debate is met with the desire to 'fart loudly'. This may actually be the correct response, as it's likely the emissions of Perigo's bowels have greater intellectual content than those of his brain.
DenMT
"Not once do [Islam's defenders] even pretend to condemn the beheaders, the car-bombers, the suicide pilots or any other variant of stupid, stinking, superstitious terrorist in his ranks."
http://www.americanmuslimwoman.com/id14.html
http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
Under one minute of Googling. Perigo believes what he wants to believe, I guess, but the chasm between him and reality is apparent to anyone who cares to apply an iota of brainpower to it.
A question to Perigo (and by default to PC who clearly cleaves to the argument, having quoted it in full) - given the above statement by Perigo, and the following links:
- Exactly what, in your eyes, voids the condemnations of terrorism offered up above by 'Islam's defenders'?
DenMT
That first post is the best thing I've read all day, I can't wait for the brain dead response.
This is why the defenders of Islam will not listen and not change. They all come from the left. To quote Oriana Fallaci
"the Left is a church, a church similar to Islam. Like Islam it considers itself sanctified by a God who is the custodian of the truth....it never acknowledges it's faults and errors, it considers itself infallible and never apologizes..it demands a world at it's own image, a society built on the verses of the prophet, it enslaves it's own followers and makes them feel stupid even when they are intelligent..., it does not accept different opinions and if you think differently it despises you...like Islam, in short, it is illiberal. Autocratic, totalitarian, even when it plays the game of democracy."
I have a strong defence: Islam allows you to beat your wife.
That sure is an appealing proposition to get some peace in the homes of hard-working and honest Kiwimen.
DenMT, I suspect the specific Islam-defenders Perigo was referring to were the one's who wrote to Salient after his first column.
Den, I'm as ready to applaud Muslims who oppose terrorism committed in the name as you are, but you need to be very careful in distinguishing your genuine moderate Muslim from your sympathetic or paid apologist.
I blogged last year about Daniel Pipes' and Sharon Chadha's examination of the US Council of Islamic Relations for example: the title of the 12-page PDF report he produced pretty much describes his conclusions: CAIR: The Benign Public Face of America's 'Wahhabi Lobby.'
The rest of your posts and of Booji Boy's isn't worth a response. You could say it's all bombast and invective.
BRAVO BRAVO - I applaud Lindsay Perigo.
Moderate Muslims - my arse!!!!!
4 September 1972 - Munich Olympic Massacre.
18 April 1983 - April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing in Beirut, Lebanon. 63 killed.
26 February 1993 - World Trade Center bombing. 6 killed.
24 December 1994 - Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers.
25 June 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
7 August 1998 - 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.
11 September 2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.
13 December 2001 - Suicide attack on India's parliament in New Delhi. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. Allegedly done by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba.
3 March 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured
9 March 2002 - Café suicide bombing in Jerusalem; 11 killed, 54 injured.
7 May 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured.
24 September 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.
12 October 2002 - Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.
16 May 2004 - Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia.
11 March 2004 - Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured. (alleged link to Al-Qaeda)
3 September 2004 Approximately 344 civilians including 186 children, are killed during the Beslan school hostage crisis.
4 February 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.
7 July 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.
23 July 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.
29 October 2005 - 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.
9 November 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings. Over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan. Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.
7 March 2006 - 2006 Varanasi bombings. An attack attributed to Lashkar-e-Toiba by Uttar Pradesh government officials, over 28 killed and over 100 injured, in a series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi
Where is the outrage from the MODERATE Muslims??????
Print a few cartoons in a Danish newspapers and Muslims throughout the globe are OUTRAGED. This includes NZ because I protested the march and witnessed utter hatred – first hand.
I quote an American radio host
Neal Boortz
"Somebody needs to grab the Muslim world by the shirt collar, back hand it a good one, knock it back into the damned corner and say straighten up or we are going to eradicate you beetles from the face of the earth"
Yes, the very center of the EU, the city of Brussels, is controlled by a City Council where Muslims hold the clear majority. Mr.Thielemans, the Mayor, is obviously a "front man" or "figurehead" to give the impression that Brussels is still controlled by Belgians.
Here’s a list of the ruling Socialist Party (PS) members of the Brussels city council headed by Mayor Freddy Thielemans.
Of the eighteen PS members, no fewer than ten have obvious Muslim names. It’s possible others may be ‘reverts’.
Thielemans is just a buffoonish front man. Muslims now control the key city at the heart of the European Union.
1. Fatima Abid
2. Mustafa Amrani
3. Samira Attalbi
4. Mohammed Boukantar
5. Philippe Close
6. Jean Baptiste de Crée
7. Ahmed el Ktibi
8. Julie Fiszman
9. Faouzia Hariche
10. Karine Lalieux
11. Marie-Paule Mathias
12. Yvan Mayeur
13. Mounia Mejbar
14. Mohamed Ouria Ghli
15. Mahfoudh Romdhani
16. Sevket Temiz
17. Freddy Thielemans
18. Christian Van Der Linden
http://uppompeii1.uppompeii.com/
And since it is Islam awareness week, I would highly recommend viewing this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKCUYE4Zq54
Some more Islam "awareness building"...
http://islamwatchers.blogspot.com/
"this stinking, stupid, life-hating superstition"
Exactly.
And what Rebel Radius said. Right on.
Screw islam and all of it's adherents.Every last one of the bastards. A primitive 7th century ideology that promotes and condones and celebrates just about every foul act known to mankind.
...enjoy all the deliciously vituperative reactions to a spade being called a spade.
Great line PC. Good post, too.
Berend de Boer, don't get cocky. There's plenty of blood on the hands of christianity. Plenty.
perhaps people could debate Why Islam Sucks at Science
"There's plenty of blood on the hands of christianity. Plenty."
I get tired of hearing this lame line.
So tell us about the Lutherans who rammed airliners into tall buildings. Tell us about the Catholics busy burning schoolgirls to death and the Christian fundamentalists sawing off innocent people's heads.
Whatever blood the is on Christianity's hands (and I'm not a Christian) is in the past.
Islam is awash with blood NOW.
Get it?
So what are you saying, Den? Did you read the wording on the placards in the accompanying photo?
What I find telling, is the silence - the deafening silence - from the western left with regard to the human rights' atrocities perpetrated by Islam and its followers.
Lucky for you that you're not female, Den. Too bad if you're gay. Too bad if you're atheist. Too bad if you subscribe to a faith other than Islam.
I guess the bloodthirsty, decidedly illiberal Islamist rhetoric is something of an inconvenient truth, eh.
KG
I can tell you about the Catholics raping boys, the continued persecution of homosexuals, the bombings of abortion clinics, the higher crime rates where christianity thrives, at least in the US, the religious intolerance and the misplaced distrust in science that christian fundamentalists encourage. Or I can tell you about the inspiration today's Muslims draw from the truly ridiculous crusades. I can also tell you about the dangers of any group that truly believes it has god on its side, and that the ends justify the means. I can also tell you that the truly unbelievable amount of violence inflicted on the world by this mob makes me deeply nervous about it happening again.
Christ, three 'truly's in my post. Need a new adjective.
Sus - I don't for a second wish to try and defend any of the terrible violence that radical Islam has inflicted on the West. I just think that the vast majority of peaceful Muslims should be allowed to live as they wish within the law of the land, according to the freedom of religion so cherished by libertarians.
Perigo's rant is a thinly veiled attack on Islam's right to exist. My feeling is that the actions of a radical minority should not (and beyond a hyper-policitised few here in NZ) do not prejudice the view of Muslims in our country. He comes across like one of those rich Amish farmers who hire drivers so they can get about it - it just doesn't ring true to champion individual freedom, and then to call for the destruction of an entire religion out the other side of your mouth.
Again, you'd have to be an idiot or entirely heartless not to condemn the terrible acts of terrorism that have been committed by radical Islam, but to try and convince anyone that the Islamic mainstream and 'the Left' are somehow complicit or defending this is plain weird. Read the links I put up in the second post.
Perigo is waging his own personal jihad against all of Islam, and doing it in the most unsavoury way. I find it repugnant, and I'm stoked that I live in a country as tolerant and compassionate as New Zealand, where his extremism is met with pity, rather than solidarity.
DenMT
Thanks for your response, Den, but I still have a problem with some of your comments.
You speak of 'the vast majority of peaceful Muslims' being able 'to live as they wish within the law of the land'. In an Islamist state, 'peaceful' Muslims are forced to toe a hard line, like it or not. And in the west, Muslim women are still urged - and often forced - to submit to Muslim practices/beliefs. As *they* wish, might not be the wish of the individual.
Whilst I agree with your sentiments regarding acts of terrorism, I stand by my claims of general leftist silence. Where are the John Mintos, the Syd Jacksons & the Sue Bradfords who were foaming at the mouth & vitriolic over, say, human rights' abuses in apartheid-era SA? Where are the orchestrated demonstrations down Queen St & Lambton Quay, backed by leftist activists and trade unions? Where are the university students who are usually so quick to express support for the Oppressed & Suppressed? Where are the feminazis, those bastions of virtue who live to address the legions of supposed wrongs committed against my sex?
Come on, Den. Relatively speaking, when it comes to matters Islam they're as quiet as lambs.
matt b, how many did your atheist friends kill?
And since christian isn't a trademarked name, anyone can call himself a christian and kill people. That doesn't mean a thing.
Yeah, fair point Berend.
Matt, you must acknowledge that current Muslim violence is *always* committed in the name of Allah. "God is great!", etc. Whether he is or isn't is a matter of opinion, but it's bemusing as to how Allah the Merciful doesn't seem to mind a busload of dead Jewish schoolkids.
KG's correct. Buddhists, Hindus, Jews & Christians of all persuasion - together with atheists - all seem to chug along quite happily in spite of any theological/philosophical difference, except our Islamist friends.
It's been a bloody long time since the crusades, thank heavens. Some of us, it would appear, are over it. And thank Christ for that. :)
Berend, I presume you are referring to Marxism. While that stamped out other religions, it was itself a religion; its deity was a man. It was founded on a flawed model and persisted for a long time in spite of the strongest evidence of its failure. It existed in spite of reason. That is not atheism.
Well, I've met several Moslem women who, when their husbands and/or family members were not present, confirmed the terrors to which they are required to submit by the religion. I'll leave you with but one. Just this one.
"Cut," says Mohammed (may peace be with him and his family), "but not destroy." He was referring to female genital mutilation. It's in the Koran. It is right there in black and white, inspired by Allah, no doubt about it.
So, it is OK. Go right ahead and do it. Slice up your wife, sister or daughter. It is allowed. Just don't cut her up sooooo bad that she dies. Just don't cut too enthusiastically, but, yes, basically it's good to cut.
Now think about what that act means for the victim. Imagine for a moment. Lie down on the ground, spread your legs apart and imagine that sanctified shard of broken glass scraping away at your most personal being. Or perhaps you're lucky and it'd be a rusty old steak knife working away at you instead. Scrape, cut, twist and slice. Just imagine.
Now think about how sick the religion that would actually contenance that. It's in the book. It's AOK. God's man said so.
Perigo is spot on. He says the ideas of the religion are evil. One can't argue with him there. The evidence is overwhelming.
BTW there are plenty of other things that I could relate about the sick nature of evil religion. The example above should suffice for now. Go think on it some.
Stop being apologists.
Abdul the Butcher
Actually why am I even defending atheism? The original point was Berend beating on Islam when his religion hardly has a good record. Christians occasionally do awful things because of their christianity. True, the worst stuff was centuries ago, but I don't think time alone is enough to give a christian the moral authority to judge his muslim neighbour. You both have done and continue to do horrible things in the name of your respective gods.
DenMT, I've just been reading some of your comments on the link PC posted. I'm not impressed. You talk about playing the man not the ball, basically admitting the ad hominem fallacy. Your comments are simply lazy. I didn't see a single substantive attack on anything Perigo said. Just a wave of the hand, a pompous statement to the effect that the errors in his piece are self evident.
Instead of smugly telling everyone how right you are and how wrong Perigo is, how about actually demonstrating it?
Hi Matt: I haven't 'smugly' told anyone how right I am - PC rightly characterised my response as 'bombast and invective' as any thinking human will see that Perigo's original piece was.
Had Perigo been bothered to reason his way through the article, and make a measured argument, I would have spent more time being reasonable. As it is, he raves about teatowels, his fear of beheading at the hands of his correspondents, and his urges to flatulate when politely invited to discuss his ideas.
Why you think he deserves anything more than schoolyard mockery and derision in response is beyond me - I make no claim for my response to be anything but.
Bottom line, Perigo wanted a response, and he got it. End of story.
DenMT
"Christians occasionally do awful things because of their christianity. True, the worst stuff was centuries ago, but I don't think time alone is enough to give a christian the moral authority to judge his muslim neighbour. You both have done and continue to do horrible things in the name of your respective gods."
I disagree, Matt. I'll (Christian or non) judge anybody that would commit the acts of barbarism as per Abdul's post.
Sure, the odd barking mad Christian might, eg, whinge on about homosexuality being abhorrent etc, but more fool them, I say. Besides, they're entitled to their opinion no matter what I think.
The CURRENT actions by non-Muslims simply don't compare with Islamist violence. When did a Methodist last burn a mosque or behead a faithful Muslim?
I can't speak for Berend or KG, but that's simply *my* point.
Sus: The problem I have is that 'the Left' and Islam in general is never seen (by the hard Right) to be doing enough to denounce terrorism. This then translates to some sort of assumed complicity.
The other problem is of course that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists (and are rightly horrified by terrorism), haven't ever participated in an honour killing or genital mutilation, and live quite happily in a well-integrated modern world.
Various characters from the extremes of the political spectrum would have us believe that these so-called 'moderates' are simply biding their time, waiting for the moment when they have sufficiently infiltrated Western countries at which point they will drastically increase their breeding rates (possible with the help of vat-grown children?) and take over, enforcing Sharia law on the masses.
IT'S. NOT. REALITY. Perigo's piece perpetuates this alternative reality fantasy, and I find that abhorrent. I am categorically NOT an 'appeaser', as I am totally opposed to all forms of terrorism and vocal about it. I am simply not a person who is willing to tar one-sixth of the world's population with the same brush, due to the actions of a radical, militant, crazed few.
DenMT
DEN, you said, "The other problem is of course that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists (and are rightly horrified by terrorism), haven't ever participated in an honour killing or genital mutilation, and live quite happily in a well-integrated modern world."
Den, your first series of assertions will have to stand as unbacked assertions--what we might politely call wishful thinking.
Your second assertion, ie., that "the vast majority of Muslims ... live quite happily in a well-integrated modern world" can be dismissed quite simply just by observing the caliphates in which the vast majority of Muslims actually live.
It is no accident that of all the Islamic nations, only one (Turkey) is a democracy, and of the others the vast majority are either dictatorships or primitive theocracies.
Those Muslims who do get the hell out and move to the West are the ones living "in a well-integrated modern world," not those who remain behind in the theocracies.
Why do you imagine Ali Reza Panah doesn't want to return to Iran? Or Ahmed Zaoui to Algeria? Or Ayaan Hirsi Ali to Somalia? These people aren't stupid.
Nor are those Muslim Turks who marched recently in support of maintaining the separation of church and state in Turkey. They knew what they were about, I'd say; they knew the dangers of theocracy better than you seem to.
The fact remains that secular Muslims are vastly in the minority worldwide, and appeasement of their masters or of the primitive superstition by which their masters enslave them helps no one, least of all those who do value peace.
"The problem I have is that 'the Left' and Islam in general is never seen (by the hard Right) to be doing enough to denounce terrorism. This then translates to some sort of assumed complicity."
Now Den, you wouldn't be joining the Helen Klark "Libertarianz are an extreme right party" Klub, would you? Because that would disappoint me. Despite your being a Greenie, I had higher hopes! :)
However, you've caught me in a good mood so I'm prepared to be the bigger man & overlook that wee transgression.
But, notwithstanding the above, you're right about one thing. Neither the Left nor Islam denounce Islamist terrorism nearly enough for my liking.
Way too selective for this white girl!
matt b: Atheists occasionally do awful things because of their atheism.
So what's the point matt? You should be the last person to talk reason, as you haven't yet demonstrated what logical arguments are.
I can kill you and say I do so in the name of God. Does that mean I did so because of Christianity? Or am I just insane?
Where in the Bible does it say I, read that carefully matt, I/me/you, may kill people in the name of God?
Ah, perhaps the point about "moderate" followers of the Moslem religion needs to be thought on a little.
Ever hear the term, "useful idiots"? Ten points to the person who correctly identifies the name of the historical figure who famously used this term. If you know who he was you should be able to recall who he was discussing and thus, to get the point.
Here, for the undereducated, is a slightly easier one.
Some years ago there were a whole heap of evil doing people. Some promoted the outfit that had evil doing as its core rules, some commited the actual evil acts, many merely joined and quietly supported the organisation that promoted and committed the evil, most just looked the other way - agreeing with the rules in principle but pretending not to notice what resulted when the rules were put into practice. There were believers who simply followed orders or who never spoke out, lest they offend someone or become unpopular themsleves. After all, one must be tolerant and go along with it all.
Who were these people? Well, some are well recorded in history. they are well remembered (or should be). Who remembers the old National Socialists? Remember them? Remember the popular Nazi Party?
"We were all moderates then."
Yes, fellow travelers and appeasers as well.
You jokers should read your history, then get your Korans out and read them. It's clear enough what they say.
Remember evil ideas lead to evil actions. An organisation that is based on evil ideas should be challenged. So should the members who silently lend it succour and support.
BTW religion has no "right to exist." What a foolish thing to write. The work of an inarticulate moron.
Religion is a set of ideas. It is not a human. It does not live or act as humans do. It has not got rights as it is not an individual person. What religion actually is, is a product of the human mind (a badly operated mind but a human mind nevertheless). Those ideas have no rights.
Abdul the Butcher
PS hey you moderates, send me your daughters....
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