Wednesday, November 14, 2007

Tax is theft

According to a current Stuff poll, 34.5% of the voting population will vote for the party in the next election who offers the best tax-cuts.

On that basis, assuming 35% of the population aren't lying through their teeth, then as a friend notes we can safely predict a Libertarianz led coalition next year.

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22 Comments:

Blogger Eric Olthwaite said...

...and the best thing about the Libertarianz is, not only will they cut your tax, they'll cut the size of the government as well!

11/14/2007 04:00:00 pm  
Blogger PC said...

You mean there are some parties who advocate reducing taxes without reducing spending?

I'm aghast! Who would possibly be so irresponsible?

11/14/2007 04:09:00 pm  
Anonymous Rob Thomsen said...

It's funny that it favoured the "no's" so much when I first saw the poll.

It's now 63.2% (as of midnight) which means Libertarianz governs alone - if Kiwis actually walk the talk on this poll.

11/15/2007 01:30:00 am  
Anonymous lgm said...

Kiwis walk the walk? They NEVER do that.

For the most part Kiwis are a mob of semi-literate, willfully ignorant little vermin, consumed with jealousy for anyone or anything they perceive as doing better than themsleves. They are parocial and intolerant. Worst of all is their nature of dependence. They require intervention from the government to tell them how to live. They WANT and demand it. Without that they feel lost and exposed.

Kiwis will continue to support the existing political classes, which in turn will harvest and exploit them. That will result in a whole heap more moaning and complaining but never, ever, any change of behaviour- business as usual.

Kiwis will NEVER vote for their own freedom. They are among the worst of dependent slaves. Really little more than chattels or social ballast (gear-meat for the machine).

Take a look at your fellow Kiwis and review their characteristics honestly. For the most part there is not much nice to see in them.

LGM

11/15/2007 06:08:00 am  
Anonymous Softcock said...

The word 'bitter hater' springs to mind, you can't possibly generalize about 4 million people in such a way.

But hey! this brain dead reductionist reasoning seems all the rage around here, you guys are just as much of the problem as the outraged 'tuhoe warriors' matching down the street on my TV last night, just another bunch of embittered reactionaries who think they know better then everybody else with impossibly constrained philosophies which paralyze any forward thinking which may possibly occur.

11/15/2007 08:34:00 am  
Blogger Eric Olthwaite said...

Mr Cresswell, I commend your attention to this post

http://pc.blogspot.com/2007/09/challenge-for-national-party-supporters.html

where two of National Party supporter David Farrar's ideas for cutting the size of the state were -

# Greater subsidies for private schools, allowing more poorer families to attend

# Move government assistance from universal to targeted in some areas

11/15/2007 09:36:00 am  
Anonymous DenMT said...

LGM, I'm just interested in why you live in New Zealand when you harbour what appears to be a deep hatred for 'the most part' of it's people...Do you just like the scenery or something?

And if you don't live here, why do you waste energy denigrating it so vehemently?

DenMT

11/15/2007 09:43:00 am  
Blogger PC said...

Unbelievable, isn't it Eric.

And almost impossible to satirise.

11/15/2007 11:12:00 am  
Blogger PC said...

DEN, I'm disappointed you haven't commented on my 'lounge' piece. I thought it would be right up your alley.

11/15/2007 11:15:00 am  
Anonymous DenMT said...

PC: Intensely busy at the moment with only time to hit and run, but seeing as I have been invited so kindly, I'll make some time tonight to have a proper read and respond...

DenMT

11/15/2007 01:59:00 pm  
Anonymous lgm said...

DenMT

Yup, I do not like most Kiwis much. Can't abide the low expectations and limited horizons (perhaps it's the education system working as intended). Kiwi culture is an excuse to behave badly and to stay ignorant. Nothing to like in that. It's a pity so few ever manage to rise above it.

I'm in NZ on a term contract at the moment. It is extremely unlikely I'll renew it (unless the money is really, really enticing).

I note that this place is even too rotten for most Kiwis now. Thousands are departing for o/seas permanently. The trouble for the locals is that those leaving include the most motivated, brightest and productive. In short the people worth knowing are leaving in disproportionate numbers. That does not bode well for the future of NZ as it is presently.

Hey, perhaps the govt might try to close the borders next. Better get rid of your NZ passport!

LGM

11/15/2007 10:28:00 pm  
Anonymous lgm said...

softy

You really should read more carefully. I wrote about what I've found to be the case for MOST Kiwis. That's not a generalisation of 4 million people, you turd!

Still, you are a fine example of exactly the type of person to which I referred.

LGM

11/15/2007 10:31:00 pm  
Anonymous lgm said...

Softy

BTW, you have been generalising about those who disagree with your softheaded opinions. You do that a lot. It's your standard tactic. Funny how you see it in others and funny how you consider it invalid...

LGM

PS you really ARE a turd.

11/16/2007 06:00:00 pm  
Anonymous DenMT said...

LGM: I'm sorry you've had such a shit time while you've been here. It's funny, I've spent almost a year in the States, six months living in France, and a bunch of short trips to Sweden, and all I hear is how great Kiwis are. And this is from the people that have been here on holiday.

I can only assume that the true horror of the Kiwi psyche is only revealed when one has lived here as an outsider for as long as you have, and us naturalised Kiwis are oblivious to our wretched, true inner selves.

Might I trouble you as to your nation of origin, or would that damage your mysterious charm? It's only that after your 'semi-literate, wilfully ignorant little vermin' call, I want to have a go too.

DenMT

11/16/2007 10:20:00 pm  
Anonymous lgm said...

DenMT

I did not say I've had a bad time while I in NZ. What I reported was my disappointment with MOST Kiwis and their culture.

---

When you meet people travelling, they are generally excited, interested and happy. They are in the mood to show off how good and how happy they are.

Kiwis are very good at being happy travellers. They can really turn on the charm. Other people, those on the receiving end of the charm offensive, appreciate what they perceive as a warmth and friendliness from foreigners. They like the openess and enjoy the company. That's likely the experience your correspondents are reporting to you.

What they do not get to experience, or if they do they choose to ignore it, is the utter lack of substance.

I recall an associate in Austria telling me how charmed and happy he was when he first met a Kiwi couple traelling through his home city of Vienna. He invited them back to have dinner with him at his home (a big deal for a Viennese to do that) next time they were in the city. They accepted and called on him for dinner a few months later. He relates how beyond the charm there was nothing much else.

They reported a list of places they'd been to but they had learned nothing of those and what the significance of each of them was. They were snapshotted with the camera, a few nights entertainment, a few day trips/walks and crossed off the list. At the end of the evening he thought he may have detected a resentment that these guests were not invited to "crash the night."

The thing to realise is that when this occurs the host is not going to take them aside and berate them about it. He'll remain polite and civil but he has already seen what he's seen.

Shortcomings are readily detected after repeated contact. You need real substance to associate with educated, interesting people. They'll offer the opportunity but you need to be able to accept it. Else you'll never know.

I see most Kiwis as missing out on a gereat amount of what life has to offer. And they never even realise.

Happy travellers are not a good indication about what a people or culture is like. The traveler is an exception and not representative. For the traveller (especially those on the "OE"), generally there are few of the life stressors present. For instance, backpackers are not that worried about how the kids are doing at school, a thirty year mortgage, some intractible trouble with the council over a home rennovation, income taxes, rates and traffic demerits. There are not the worries about politics and laws grinding one down. The traveller is in and out (the Kiwi eats, roots and leaves). It is when these and other pressures of daily living pile up, then you get to see the substance of people. How do they live? How do they treat issues and problems? What do they do? And that's when I came to appreciate that the Kiwis is in general a good bloke (they are always good blokes), who likes to think he lives in the best country in the whole World (he doesn't), who is quick to seek freebies and likes to moan and complain about why he should get more for nix. When it comes to doing something to solve problems, the Kiwi will moan and whine and then he'll vote for the govt. These are not the characteristics on display during the "OE".

BTW something I've noticed. If someone says that NZ is the most beautiful country in the World and you disagree, he'll immediately take it as a slight and get angry. Then you get the, "Why are you here then" and, "Why don't you go back there then?" Seems that there are a few precious myths here that need to be eliminated so that people can start perceiving the truth about themselves and this place.

Now having written all that, I'll stress that I have met New Zealanders who are top class and decent people of substance, learning and civility. It's just that there are few of them and that the the path through life they have chosen is actively discouraged by the local culture. I usually advise them about the opportunities that await them elsewhere. They should not bind themselves to all the social ballast in this place. Hell no! Life is too short.

---

Now this all started out from a few comments I made in reponse to a poll result. If Kiwis are saying they will vote for whichever party offers the best tax cuts, then they should be voting LibertariaNZ at the next election. I maintin the position that most Kiwis like to talk and complain but they are too shallow and scared to act. So they'll complain about vexatious taxes and regulations but when it comes to eliminating these problems they will do exactly the opposite. They will vote to keep them. They talk the talk but they do not walk the walk. A nation of bullshit artists and little conmen!

---

As an aside, I chucked when told by a local that his family were conservatives. He went on to say, "That's conservative with a small c." He confided that opposite side of the family (by marriage) were socialists. One could surmise they were small s socialists. Really! That's summed the show up. Impotence.

Enough for now. Time to go do some work.

LGM

11/17/2007 07:36:00 am  
Anonymous DenMT said...

LGM: I don't want to get into this argument because now I am almost certain that you are trolling. I think it is hilarious that you think New Zealand is some kind of feral shithole, redeemed only by a tiny minority of people of "substance, learning and civility" - no doubt determined by their politics.

I can only suggest that your enjoyment of your time here has been ultimately coloured by the poo-brown tinted specs you must insist on wearing everywhere. I notice you declined not to reveal the paradisiacal origin nation that you have been torn from in order to serve your penance here.

Seriously, if you are that sour about the whole thing, next time you are in Wellington email me (davedrawslines@gmail.com) and you can come out for a beer with me and my friends - on me. Perhaps you'll see that the unwashed masses are in fact not as repugnant as they seem from your ivory tower of "substance, learning and civility".

DenMT

11/17/2007 09:57:00 am  
Blogger Brian S said...

LGM,

I'm an expat Kiwi, currently working in London. I'm not on any OE. Been there done that some time ago. I count myself as a tax exile from NZ.

Now what you say about whinging and moaning and expecting handouts or that government "do something" could equally well apply to the Brits, except in triplicate! It is hardly a New Zealand phenomenom. If it were, would London have Ken Livingstone as mayor?! Or Britain have Gordon Brown as prime minister? In fact, the only thing that keeps Britain afloat is London which, despite all the insipient statism, has managed not to financially overregulate itself like New York and also to offer low taxes for those who can structure themselves appropriately.

11/17/2007 12:03:00 pm  
Anonymous lgm said...

Brain S

I met a lot of decent people when on assignment to London and had an excellent time there. At that stage Thatcher was running the UK. There was tremendous optimism and a wave of change sweeping through. Plenty of opportunity and, for a time, rejection of the grey. Towards the end of my residence, Thatcher was replaced by "the man with the moustache on the inside of his lips", John Major. There were changes a-coming but Red Ken certainly was not anticipated. Still, for a time things looked positive, a lot more so than they do now.

I have not been back for a few years (except for meetings or transitting, so that does not count). Could you elaborate and write more about your experiences there lately?

You are, of course, completely right in mentioning that the whinging handout nonsense is not restricted to NZ. Most Kiwis would be surprised to realise how much they share with the British under-commoner. Unfortunately it is some of the worst traits they share most closely. And they have some shockers of their own. Pity.

In the end NZ, as it is presently, is not sustainable. The prediction is that there will eventually be substantial migration of Asian settlers (in the millions). It will be up to them to bring the country in and develop it as it should have been. The present culture will be extinguished, as will the life-style and, probably, the language. That is a shame. Some of what is good here will be present no longer.

Then again, the locals can't expect to keep living high on th hog for little or no effort while tens of millions of others are striving to achieve and develop. Visits to China, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, India and Vietnam are all that is necessary to demonstarate what the future is about. "Nature abhors vacuum."

LGM

11/18/2007 07:30:00 am  
Blogger Brian S said...

LGM,

Thatcher's legacy can clearly be seen in London today. Thanks to the "Big Bang" of 1986, this city is now a boomtown. The East End these days looks much less like the EastEnders on telly and much more like a mini Manhatten as a new financial district rises up. So, despite the parlous state of much of Britain, London is a very exciting place to be (though parts of London suck bigtime).

Clearly even Labourite politicians realise that London should not be tampered with. New York has over-regulated itself, making it harder to conduct business. London has not. So financiers are flocking to this city. Also the UK tax laws have "loopholes" making it more worthwhile for high income earners to stay (heh heh, that's why I'm here).

Obviously deregulation and low tax work. The benefits are obvious - just look at London's skyline as ambitious new skyscrapers rise up. Or take a journey to Southampton and see a revitalized port clogged with ever bigger cruise ships.

But how many politicians draw the right lesson from London? How many Britons?

How many New Zealanders?

And I agree that NZ is in trouble. It saddens me greatly. NZ could be a fantastic country but it is being left behind. It should be a matter of utmost urgency to reduce taxes drastically and to cut back on government. Make Ireland the model, not fucking Sweden.

11/18/2007 10:22:00 am  
Anonymous lgm said...

DenMT

I must have missed your "contribution" over the weekend. This morning I fired up the computer and there you are with a childish, emotional outburst. Grow up. Count to ten and read very carefully this time. Focus on what is presented, not on what you can make up in a fit of spite.

Did I say I was having a bad time while in NZ? No.

Did I say NZ was a "feral shithole"? No.

Did I write that it was redeemed by a small number of people of a particular political view? No.

Did I say the place I was born was a paradise compared to this place? No.

These are all things YOU arbitrarily made up. I suspect you did it because you were upset. You were upset because someone (me) was critical of the national myth, of the Kiwi identity/culture. And so you reverted to type- out came the clobbering machine. Bluddy foreigners, don't they know NZ is the best country in the whole wide World? It is. It's God's own country, doncha know?

That's pretty weak, mate.

Understand that smearing me does not refute the information you were presented with. Nor does it invalidate the point I made regarding how the Kiwis are likely to vote next elections. All it does is demonstrate you are emotional and prone to outbursts.

Advice: Calm down. Read what is written and think about it BEFORE responding. Don't go off on a tyrade that has little to do with the topic under consideration.

LGM

PS there was a reason I didn't disclose where I was born. I figured it wasn't relevant to what was being discussed. Also I suspected you'd go off on a tyrade about how bad that place was and/or how I should return there. DenMT, that approach does not invalidate my point about local culture etc. Nor does it somehow magically make the NZ myth of superiority whole, unchallenged and correct. Stick to the point will you.

11/19/2007 06:39:00 am  
Anonymous lgm said...

Brian S

A while ago I listened to an interview by Lindsay Perigo. The guest was the National Party leader, John Key. A question was put to John Key and it was a goody. He was asked whether he would take NZ onto a flat 13% tax regime.

Vladimir Putin of Russia had been responsible for setting up a 13% taxation regime. If Russia with its huge military, vast geographic size, hostile winters and critical need to maintina and update its infrastruture could do 13%, surely NZ could do so as well. NZ has no real military. It has mild climate, a low population and is small. The infrastructure demands are less than modest by World standards and the country is vastly wealthy with tremendous potential. Why not the 13%, he was asked, instead of the huge burdens currently enforced.

He wriggled and told some stories about Russia (which were incorrect) and then evaded answering clearly. Towards the end of his comments he made it clear he did not intend to go down the low tax route. It was concluded he is likely to keep taxation high in NZ should he become the next Great Leader. Business as usual then.

Still, it was an interesting question. I got to thinking what NZ would be like if there was a flat 13% tax (in Russia that 13% includes property rates and all local govt fees and taxes as well as central govt taxes- all are summed together and must not total more than 13% of the citizen's income). Of course there would need to be a substantial trimming of government interventions in people's activities and lives. It would be necessary for the government to withdraw from many sectors of the economy.

I concluded that NZ would boom; standard of living would substantially rise. People would be happier. There would be less of the surely resentment and anger one encounters here and there. The culture would change.

In short NZ could make a start on achieving the potential that is presently locked up & not allowed to develop. It would be a much better place.

Ah well.

LGM

11/19/2007 07:04:00 am  
Anonymous DenMT said...

LGM, I'll respectfully shut this correspondence down as it is largely without merit.

I would simply point out that you opened up the can of worms by calling most Kiwis "semi-literate, willfully ignorant little vermin" - something that most Kiwis would be wont to rebut in reasonably strong terms, one would think.

The offer of a beer is genuine and well-intended. You have my email above.

DenMT

11/19/2007 12:59:00 pm  

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