Wednesday, September 19, 2007

Welcome home - but just one thing first

There's just one thing Ahmed Zaoui needs to do before we all sing "Welcome Home," says SOLO spokesman Sandra Ashworth, and that's this:
To publicly condemn terrorism and renounce terrorist activities, by publicly showing that he has given to the Security Intelligence Service a full and frank disclosure of all terrorist groups he has been involved with, including people, funding, locations and plans, says SOLO spokesman Sandra Ashworth. "Any declaration from Ahmed Zaoui must be made with direct reference that he has not used the Islamic deception of Taqiyya, a precedent which enables Muslims to deceive for the betterment of Islam. The SIS will be able to confirm that he has cooperated fully and completely.

"Only then can Ahmed Zaoui be rightly called a refugee and entitled to protection here in New Zealand, where any Kiwi should be proud to protect and defend someone who fights terrorism.
Sounds simple. Who could possibly object?

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16 Comments:

Blogger socialisthashashin said...

Peter , you need to check your premises.you can spend a high percentage of your time preaching to the quire ,in which case you are
1.wasting your time
2.being a hypocrite and patting your false ego
3.have lost the purpose of the philosophy in which you beleive ,which should be to bring to reality real change.
or you can get out their off your arse !!! and speak to the socialists and the ill informed masses.and create change.
also there is no such thing as a perfect libertarian view of a free society. you may not agree with a few things Dr Ron Paul stands for .
But he is a Libertarian and a passionate one(i suugest you check his voting record) with building support,and if he can gain more and more media attention here, it can only be good for NewZealand.
Freedom is an ongoing comittment not something we get behind when we only agree with it totally.
Once again I ask .could you show him some support.Also it is not Americas job to police the world and spread "democracy"America is a constitutional republic and it was the for fathers intention that we stay out of intangling wars and alliances ans talk and trade and build relations by being a shinning example to the rest of the world, not by force but by example
Also i am doing you a favour do not waste your life copying frank Llyod Wright .design your own Architecture.
I walk the walk ,i dont talk the talk.
The problem with the Libertarian Party in NewZealand is just as i have stated above,People want to hear the message ,but you need to get out in the real world, not this medium so much.
that is exactly what i do.and I have been a Ayn Rand fan and Libertarian fo 25 years and am now designing and building the work which you very much admire here in the United States which is where Claude wished he had come.
The last time I was in New zealand I attended a libertarian annual meeting close to the airport in Auckland ,
the whole thing was so unprofessionally run ,one speaker was saying he wanted to blow up parliment(A great idea but for fucks sake possible converts call them what you want do not understand this type of talk!!) and yes this guy was getting laughed at by most of those that attended but not great for your purpose!, I brought along someone who was interested but was put off by this and the complete unorganised way the meeting was presented, also the only recognisable public figure Linzey Perigo, dresses in a shitty T shirt.you may not think this matters ,but the reality is ,to the voting public they will only take you seriosly when you present yourself seiously, and a kid speaking which was great but standing in a seat?
it makes the party look like a joke,I am talking the reality of trying to change the system which once again you need to check your premises and purpose unless you like wasting your own time ,would you spend your time writing about Architecture or out there building it in the real world?
I can tell you this i sure do not and neither did Claude.
I do applaude you for all your work and you are a genuine fighter for freedom. And your blog is very informative ,but still know that your time would be better utilised out there informing people not preaching to the converted.

9/19/2007 03:35:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I say this as a Zaoui sceptic – he actually is not considered a terrorist and so wrong to follow that theme. I don’t think anyone is suggesting he planted bombs or carried a gun. The issue was that he associated with some very dodgy folks as part of an Algerian émigré community.
The question is how closely he associated himself with them and what services he performed for them.
His claim was “oh I never knew they were GIA”, even though he shared a car with the GIA’s armourer. Well, given the smallness of his community I wonder about how ingenuous he is being. In Northern Ireland I believe it was pretty well known amongst those involved in the political struggles, who were the ‘hard men’ and their affiliations. They had extensive intelligence networks so why do we believe the Algerian community had none, especially given the very deadly nature of their struggle, and why was a leading figure like Zaoui apparently so innocently isolated from this? It just doesn’t add up to me.
In contrast Paul Buchanan gave an excoriating view of the SIS and their performance and acceptance of bias intelligence on Nat Rad last Friday. It is a very compelling argument. As with most things regarding spy services we don’t know what we don’t know, and I suspect it depends on who you trust. I have no reason to distrust the SIS and their motives while Buchanan does.
It might be a good investigative story to take an original look at Zaoui’s writings and speeches and those he aligned with if any are available, particularly around the subjects of sharia law and its primacy, and compare and contrast with the cuddly picture presented here.

Insider

9/19/2007 05:15:00 pm  
Anonymous LGM said...

Insider

I didn't hear Buchanan's interview. Could you relate the main points here?

Thanks

LGM

9/19/2007 06:47:00 pm  
Anonymous The Perfect Man said...

Ha. Zaoui could swear on the Koran that he is not commiting 'taqiya' and be doing the very thing if it all suited him or Islam. How will we ever know when these guys are telling the truth when lying is not thought wrong - it is not a moral issue to them. They are the ultimate pragmatists.

Its going to really be fun when Muslim cops and judges are eventually (soon) investigating cases or holding trials against Muslims. Wow, NZ politicians had no idea what they were doing thinking these people will fit into western culture.nfvb

9/20/2007 09:03:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lgm

Interview is here about 7-10 minutes in - listen soon as it will likely drop off the RNZ system tomorrow.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/national/aft/the_panel_part_4

From my rough memory, basically Buchanan said Zaoui had been frank about who and what he was, but the Belgian and French govts have been feeding the SIS a line of his involvements because they are friends with Algeria.

The SIS were desperate not to offend overseas agencies and so have accepted that analysis without question - despite no evidence to back it up - and they have done a huge about turn and their announcement was face saving, and the Zaoui is now a CIA asset is a smear. He thinks SIS are basically incompetant and need to be more professional.

insider

9/20/2007 09:27:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

that link didn't all come trhough for some reason here again but broken into two lines

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/
national/aft/the_panel_part_4

9/20/2007 09:29:00 am  
Anonymous Phil (Pacific Empire) said...

Socialist Hashashin,
The last time I was in New zealand I attended a libertarian annual meeting close to the airport in Auckland ,
the whole thing was so unprofessionally run ,one speaker was saying he wanted to blow up parliment(A great idea but for fucks sake possible converts call them what you want do not understand this type of talk!!) and yes this guy was getting laughed at by most of those that attended but not great for your purpose!, I brought along someone who was interested but was put off by this and the complete unorganised way the meeting was presented, also the only recognisable public figure Linzey Perigo, dresses in a shitty T shirt.you may not think this matters ,but the reality is ,to the voting public they will only take you seriosly when you present yourself seiously, and a kid speaking which was great but standing in a seat?
it makes the party look like a joke.


I just want to respond to this part of your comment. I was also at this meeting (I was the "kid speaking," if you mean the 2005 AGM) and I can confirm what Peter said about getting rid of some of the nutters. I agree with you about presentation. I like to think that the party has improved this since I've been a member, at least each time I've been to an AGM/conference it has been better than the previous one. However I don't think that my age was relevant - I think I represented the Libertarianz well in the election, and got a fairly good number of votes compared to other Libz candidates, especially given that the seat was a Labour stronghold - and I also don't think Lindsay wearing a T-shirt has anything to do with the party's professionalism. Besides, judging a party on such issues would be like dismissing your comment just because of bad spelling and anonymity - its unfair and essentially irrelevant to the substance of what we are trying to achieve.

However, I know you must have some suggestions as to how we can improve our image, and I would be interested to hear them.

9/20/2007 10:25:00 am  
Anonymous Phil (Pacific Empire) said...

This is the comment I left on SOLO about the press release quoted in PC's post:

According to Fran O''Sullivan, Zaoui has already renounced terrorism - "singing like a bird," swearing on the Qu'ran to seek permission from the SIS before getting in touch with former contacts, and telling them everything he knows about GIA terrorist networks.

I don't think Zaoui - convicted of associating with terrorists in Belgium and France, and deported from Switzerland, due to his association with the terrorist organization responsible for several bombings of the Paris Metro, and the hijacking of an airliner which they threatened to fly into the Eiffel Tower - should have been allowed here in the first place. His life was in no danger in Malaysia, and he is an admitted Islamist.

But I am willing to trust the SIS on this one. He has renounced terror and offered information. He has not done so publicly, but to the SIS, the organization which is entrusted with the responsibility of preventing terrorism in New Zealand. I don't have a security clearance, or access to their information, so I might as well trust them to make the decision.

As for taqiyya, you should know that Zaoui is Sunni, not Shi'a, and taqiyya is a minority Shi'a doctrine, condemned by most Sunnis (as a frequently persecuted minority, Shi'a developed this in order to survive under hostile rulers). It only applies to renouncing Islam in order to save your own life, not to advance the cause of Islam or confuse the unbeliever.

9/20/2007 10:41:00 am  
Anonymous Sus said...

Phil: I'm pretty certain that Lindsay didn't attend the 2005 conference.

He was there last year when I MC'd, as opening speaker on the tenth anniversary.

9/20/2007 10:51:00 am  
Anonymous AngloAmerican said...

I thought socialisthashashin said that a kid was speaking whilst standing on a seat. Seemed a bit dangerous to me.

9/20/2007 11:01:00 am  
Anonymous Phil (Pacific Empire) said...

Sus: OK, it sounds like he was talking about 2006 conference instead of the 2005 one. One of them I announced I was standing (for a seat, not on it!) and at the next, I reported on how it went. If thats not what he means then I'm not understanding the comment at all!

9/20/2007 11:23:00 am  
Anonymous Sus said...

The only nonsense I can recall was at the 2004 conference (the first I attended) from two speakers. The first disappeared from the Libz altogether fairly quickly after that and the second, a ring-in, was not a member but somehow grabbed the opportunity to speak and went on for ages.

I recall being very pleased when he eventually finished - and I've never seen him since.

If socialisthash was exposed to that, I can't argue with him. I can only assure him that it belongs in the past.

From my perspective, I was determined to keep the schedule to time last year and, even allowing for Tim W, - :) - we did.

9/20/2007 01:09:00 pm  
Anonymous lgm said...

Guys

Some turkey vomits up a missive about how HE THINKS you are all spending your time inappropriately and that you'd be better off elsewhere (door-knocking perhaps!). Then you take him seriously and start writing apologies. For goodness sake. Get off your knees. Tell the fool to take his own advice. Tell him to go stuff himself. He's just some turkey and his comments are not even on-topic.

Here, I'll do it for you. Socialist or whatever you call yourself, you are an idiot and a hypocrit. You are probably a liar as well. I reckon you should stop your preaching and boasting and go off yourself. Next time try sticking to the substantive topic or at least a closely related one.

How about that.

LGM

9/21/2007 07:10:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Labour does not care whether people think they are liars or not, so long as they vote Labour. That is where the power is.
If socialisthashashin is wrong, count your votes again.

9/22/2007 08:05:00 am  
Anonymous lgm said...

anonyzzzz or whatever you call yourself these days,

the majority of Kiwis will vote for more of whatever it is they think they need at other someone else's expense. That is their nature. They never recognise that it is they who end up doing the paying. That is because they are stupid. Cowards as well. As is well said, the Kiwi bird, flightless, helpless and stupid, is an excellent national symbol for New Zzzzzzland.

Counting votes is silly. You'll never get slaves to vote for freedom. Counting heads regardless of content is a pointless exercise. You need to realise that the value of an idea is not determined by how many hold it. Get that? It means that counting how many people voted Labour (say) does not mean that Labour's ideology is a good one. It just means that a certain number of people voted Labour.

Similarly socialist wasshissnam's viewpoint is not proven or validated by the number of votes cast for Labour or Libertarianz or National Socilaists or Greens in the election. Hell no!

As to the LibertariaNZ political Party. I do not think they will ever get voted into power. You know it. I know it. They know it. It does not matter anyway. The purpose of the "Party" appears to be to communicate the ideas of individual freedom. The "Party" is a means to do that, a vehicle for communication just as is this forum and associated web pages.

In the end it will be the crushing failure of socialism that will direct people toward Libertarianism. There is a long way to go before that. Much suffering nd impoverishment yet to occur. Sit back and watch. It should be fun.

Note, a Libertarian system of individual freedom is not a political system that will be democratically voted into being.

As for Socialist whassit, he's just another angry prat. You get that around the shop from time to time. A little boaster and a bit of a loser who rates himself but can't understand why he hasn't got a profile or recognition. No-one seems interested so he blows shit around some.


LGM

9/22/2007 09:10:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The point that socialisthashashin makes is that "churning" your wisdom amongst yourselves does not advance your arguement. You need to convince others.
Labour takes its message (vote for us and we will give you something) to targetted gullible voters. They treat each voter's Achilles Heel. So simple yet so effective.
This is why they will stay in power.

9/22/2007 11:22:00 am  

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