I think the cartoon IS in praise of Jesus and his peaceful teachings.
When we attack, criticise, or interrogate very deeply entrenched social and cultural systems -- such as hitting our children -- it is disingenuous to not expect people to feel threatened and respond accordingly. That’s the nature of how systems work; people are deeply invested in them. Jesus knew this and thumbed his nose at it.
He was totally against the Rockwellian fantasies of honky smalltown godbags...the March of the Minutemen...
I'm not too sure of what anon is going on about - maybe he thinks Jesus was a 60's flower child.
But PC, you're back at reducing Bible passages to their most simplistic and out of context meanings.
Jesus was using hyperbole for effect. If you read more of the Bible rather than cherry-picking only the sensationalist phrases, you would find parts where he says something, and then it says that he spoke plainly. So, you have to be careful when you read what he said to discern the exact meaning - not the meaning that you'd like it to have.
What Jesus meant was that if the people he was talking to wanted to be his followers, ie his disciples, then they will hate their mother and father, their wife and children, his brothers and sisters and even their own life. The point of the list is that no other relationship is first for a disciple. “Hate” is used figuratively and suggests a priority of relationship. Jesus is first. To follow Jesus means to follow Jesus, not anyone or anything else. A disciple is a learner, and the primary teacher in life is Jesus. This total loyalty is crucial, given the rejection and persecution that lie ahead. If his followers care more about family than about Jesus, when families are divided under pressure of persecution, they will choose against Jesus. This is what lies behind Jesus’ remarks.
The truth of what lay ahead can be quite clearly seen now, as most of the Apostles died pretty horrible deaths because of their belief in Jesus.
Lucyna has spoken clearly. This is so obvious that only 'Satan-like' hatred and blindness could believe Jesus meant anything else! This is why Bible critics are completely without credibility! When will you grasp that you are the Devils suckers? Notice like Satan, PC quotes scripture! That's right boys and girls! Satan is loving this as much as you are! "Yea hath God said?..." You are Satan’s children! I can see you all seething with guile, hungry to find any excuse to blaspheme! You do not read the bible looking for truth! Your hearts are hardened and your consciences seared! If you lived in the first century, I bet you would be at the front of the stoning of Christians! God knows your heart! He will judge you accordingly!
Yet P.C is doing Christianity a favor by exposing the naivety of atheism, and giving folk like Luciana an opportunity to bare witness to the truth! The Christian is not threatened by free speech, or atheism. We will always hold our own ground as long as we have the liberty to do so! The word of God stands sure! In God will I trust! His word is a light unto my path. Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death…I will fear no evil!
It is not too late for you to be saved! Turn from your Satanism to Christ your savior! The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Whosoever will call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved! The liberty to choose is yours! Don’t let Satan dupe you!
'Satan-like' hatred and blindness...you are the Devils suckers? ...You are Satan’s children!....You are Satan’s children!
The Christian is not threatened by free speech, or atheism. lol.
If you lived in the first century, I bet you would be at the front of the stoning of Christians! - and if you lived in the 12th century I bet you would be at the front burning those witches and heretics.
..giving folk like Luciana an opportunity to bare witness to the truth! And give folk like Tim a reason to give us a good laugh.
Still, Lucyna's comment was quite nice..
“Hate” is used figuratively and suggests a priority of relationship.
Didn't Jesus speak Aramaic or something? This is where things become pretty fluid because as surely as Jesus would never have used the word hate the Aramaic word he might have used did not mean what we think hate means today. Possibly a close approximation, maybe stronger in meaning or maybe less so, or maybe didn't even mean that at all, but who knows?
Also one has to keep in mind that the New Testament was written well after the grisly demise of the Disciples and this is reflected in the story. It's an old Biblical technique to write history as if it were prophecy.
Tim said... I walk through the valley of the shadow of death…I will fear no evil!
Tim, have you had a conversation with George Bush over recent years? You have just quoted his favorite biblical verse. He first quoted this verse during the 9/11 memorial service in New York. Are you sure that Bush, didn't get his orders from the omnipotent power up in the sky?
If we take as given the christian god's omniscience and the bible being divinely inspired, then the christian god inspired bible's words knowing full well that the ambiguity in the quoted passage would lead throughout the ages to these kinds of misunderstandings and arguments when these arguments were entirely avoidable.
So either:
a) the bible is not divinely inspired, or
b) the christian god wanted misunderstanding or disagreement
Me, I'm not sure which is worse. 
10 comments:
I think the cartoon IS in praise of Jesus and his peaceful teachings.
When we attack, criticise, or interrogate very deeply entrenched social and cultural systems -- such as hitting our children -- it is disingenuous to not expect people to feel threatened and respond accordingly. That’s the nature of how systems work; people are deeply invested in them. Jesus knew this and thumbed his nose at it.
He was totally against the Rockwellian fantasies of honky smalltown godbags...the March of the Minutemen...
I'm not too sure of what anon is going on about - maybe he thinks Jesus was a 60's flower child.
But PC, you're back at reducing Bible passages to their most simplistic and out of context meanings.
Jesus was using hyperbole for effect. If you read more of the Bible rather than cherry-picking only the sensationalist phrases, you would find parts where he says something, and then it says that he spoke plainly. So, you have to be careful when you read what he said to discern the exact meaning - not the meaning that you'd like it to have.
What Jesus meant was that if the people he was talking to wanted to be his followers, ie his disciples, then they will hate their mother and father, their wife and children, his brothers and sisters and even their own life. The point of the list is that no other relationship is first for a disciple. “Hate” is used figuratively and suggests a priority of relationship. Jesus is first. To follow Jesus means to follow Jesus, not anyone or anything else. A disciple is a learner, and the primary teacher in life is Jesus. This total loyalty is crucial, given the rejection and persecution that lie ahead. If his followers care more about family than about Jesus, when families are divided under pressure of persecution, they will choose against Jesus. This is what lies behind Jesus’ remarks.
The truth of what lay ahead can be quite clearly seen now, as most of the Apostles died pretty horrible deaths because of their belief in Jesus.
It was all about total commitment to Him.
Anyone else notice how "Gods guide to life" always has to be reinterpreted and explained rather than taken for what it ACTUALLY says?
And if that fails we have to go to another book or source outside this guide to explain things....?
Silly primitive nonsense that shelters morons and "Peter Pan" adult wantobee's
Lucyna has spoken clearly.
This is so obvious that only 'Satan-like' hatred and blindness could believe Jesus meant anything else!
This is why Bible critics are completely without credibility!
When will you grasp that you are the Devils suckers?
Notice like Satan, PC quotes scripture!
That's right boys and girls!
Satan is loving this as much as you are!
"Yea hath God said?..."
You are Satan’s children!
I can see you all seething with guile, hungry to find any excuse to blaspheme!
You do not read the bible looking for truth!
Your hearts are hardened and your consciences seared!
If you lived in the first century, I bet you would be at the front of the stoning of Christians!
God knows your heart!
He will judge you accordingly!
Yet P.C is doing Christianity a favor by exposing the naivety of atheism, and giving folk like Luciana an opportunity to bare witness to the truth!
The Christian is not threatened by free speech, or atheism.
We will always hold our own ground as long as we have the liberty to do so!
The word of God stands sure!
In God will I trust!
His word is a light unto my path.
Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death…I will fear no evil!
It is not too late for you to be saved!
Turn from your Satanism to Christ your savior!
The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Whosoever will call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved!
The liberty to choose is yours!
Don’t let Satan dupe you!
'Satan-like' hatred and blindness...you are the Devils suckers?
...You are Satan’s children!....You are Satan’s children!
The Christian is not threatened by free speech, or atheism. lol.
If you lived in the first century, I bet you would be at the front of the stoning of Christians!
- and if you lived in the 12th century I bet you would be at the front burning those witches and heretics.
..giving folk like Luciana an opportunity to bare witness to the truth!
And give folk like Tim a reason to give us a good laugh.
Still, Lucyna's comment was quite nice..
“Hate” is used figuratively and suggests a priority of relationship.
Didn't Jesus speak Aramaic or something? This is where things become pretty fluid because as surely as Jesus would never have used the word hate the Aramaic word he might have used did not mean what we think hate means today. Possibly a close approximation, maybe stronger in meaning or maybe less so, or maybe didn't even mean that at all, but who knows?
Also one has to keep in mind that the New Testament was written well after the grisly demise of the Disciples and this is reflected in the story. It's an old Biblical technique to write history as if it were prophecy.
Tim said...
I walk through the valley of the shadow of death…I will fear no evil!
Tim, have you had a conversation with George Bush over recent years? You have just quoted his favorite biblical verse. He first quoted this verse during the 9/11 memorial service in New York. Are you sure that Bush, didn't get his orders from the omnipotent power up in the sky?
Luigi (Restaurant owner): "You come-a with me, come-a with Luigi. You don't want to sit with the rest of these scum."
People in restaurant grumble
Luigi: "I only consider you scum compared to Krusty."
People in restaurant approve
Luigi: "Yeah, you see how you scum."
Hmm... comparing Jesus to Krusty the Clown - that's gotta earn me a few atheist points.
If we take as given the christian god's omniscience and the bible being divinely inspired, then the christian god inspired bible's words knowing full well that the ambiguity in the quoted passage would lead throughout the ages to these kinds of misunderstandings and arguments when these arguments were entirely avoidable.
So either:
a) the bible is not divinely inspired, or
b) the christian god wanted misunderstanding or disagreement
Which is it, christians?
Thanks Lucyna. I do enjoy your explanations of how plain words mean the opposite of their meaning.
And thanks Tim, for pointing out that it's "satanic" to quote scripture.
Frankly, when the scripture is so poor on so many counts, it's nothing less than a public service.
Tim's rants always make me regret not taking shares in Kleenex...that much drivel and froth would have made me a millionare by now...;-0
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