The discussion at SOLO following Mel Gibson's drunken "I hate Jews" tirade has morphed into something much more interesting than simply a discussion on anti-semitism: a discussion on the origins of Christianity.This is no idle conversation*. James Valliant, who kicked off the conversation with a provocative essay that touched on the beginnings of Christianity is currently writing a book on the origins and nature of the New Testament to be titled 'Behind the Cross.'
Valliant's thesis is that Christianity as it is known has little to do with Jesus -- indeed as Valliant says, "if any scholar can make a convincing case for having found the authentic words of Jesus, he has himself performed a miracle greater than walking on water" -- and more to do with First- Century Middle-Eastern geopolitics. The Romans, he suggests, wanted to pacify a recalcitrant Jewish province, and the method chosen for that was to promote a pacified, Pro-Roman variant of existing Jewish and Mosaic teachings (something that's been suggest with present-day Islam).
According to this theory, which builds on previous research suggesting the New Testament and Christian thought itself is largely the work of Paul rather than Jesus (whoever he may be), Paul was not just an early and lucky convert to the faith, but perhaps even a Roman agent provocateur in the disciples' midst, the man who would eventually adapt and sell the pacific message to the Mediteranean world.
If true, the result however was far from what the Romans could have ever intended. To paraphrase 'The Life of Brian, "So what have the Romans ever done for us?" "Well, they did take the ramblings of some itinerant spiritualist and turn them into a creed extolling mysticism, duty, altruism and collectivism that eventually cause the collapse of Rome and a millennia of crosses and graves." "Oh yeah, but apart from that ..."
Go check out the discussions. What else are you going to do on a rainy Sunday?
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* A point to anyone who gets the pun.
LINKS: No, really, some of his best friends are Jews - James Valliant, SOLO
The passion of the Gibson - Not PC (Peter Cresswell)
REFERENCE:
- The Brick Testament - Biblical stories in Lego [check out the Instructions on Marriage!Hat tip Diana.
- Skeptics Annotated Bible
- Ken's guide to the Bible - Amazon.Com
BOOKS RECOMMENDED BY JAMES VALLIANT ("until [his] own book is published...":
- James the Brother of Jesus: The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity - Amazon.Com
- Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus - Amazon.Com
- Jesus Was Caesar: On the Julian Origin of Christianity: An Investigative Report (Paperback) - Amazon.Com
RELATED: Religion, History, Philosophy, Ethics, Books
LINKS: No, really, some of his best friends are Jews - James Valliant, SOLO
The passion of the Gibson - Not PC (Peter Cresswell)
REFERENCE:
- The Brick Testament - Biblical stories in Lego [check out the Instructions on Marriage!Hat tip Diana.
- Skeptics Annotated Bible
- Ken's guide to the Bible - Amazon.Com
BOOKS RECOMMENDED BY JAMES VALLIANT ("until [his] own book is published...":
- James the Brother of Jesus: The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity - Amazon.Com
- Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus - Amazon.Com
- Jesus Was Caesar: On the Julian Origin of Christianity: An Investigative Report (Paperback) - Amazon.Com
RELATED: Religion, History, Philosophy, Ethics, Books
13 comments:
Idol conversation? :-)
PC said ...
[What else are you going to do on a rainy Sunday?]
Nice Roast Pork.
I think I get it - Eric...
In Michael Hart's "The 100: A Ranking of the most influential person's in history" he ranks Jesus at number 3 and St Paul at number 6, and goes on to show how crucial Paul was at spreading the gospel and that Christianity as we know it may have fizzled out without his influence.
"The 100" is a great book if anyone hasn't read it - for reference if nothing else.
Well done Leelion. Full marks both for diligence and discretion. :-)
Eric Idle = Brian, the true messiah. And I should know, I've followed enough of them!
If members really want to know about christianity they should read
"Infinite love is the only truth ~ everything else is illusion" by David Icke. see page 125
anonymous,
my ex-neighbour was a big David Icke fan. She also had a friend who could change the weather with his consciousness for a fee. Go to Takatimu Weather Modification Services twm.co.nz. A site where if you're an Icke fan, you may find enlightenment, or something near it. Then again maybe you won't.
Let me see: the Romans wanted a roman loving religion in Judea, so they tortured, crucified and martyred the man who should be leading this movement.
Well, eh. May I suggest writing it in fiction form? Even a fraction of the Da Vinci code could make one rich enough to retire, even after taxes.
"...the Romans wanted a Roman-loving religion in Judea, so they tortured, crucified and martyred the man who should be leading this movement."
You have your timeline wrong, Berend, and your focus.
Valliant's thesis is that they began a story about a man who died leading a movement, a man who was crucified and martyred for being a peacenik.
Occam's Razor suggests that such a moral and virtuous religion would not have been the product of frauds and liars who gained nothing from it and mostly were executed for their, uh, "beliefs".
ok, could be pc, just helping a long. Did you pas my suggestion about the book deal? Even the Da Vinci code has foot notes, so that shouldn't be a problem. And can be in the movie?
Sigh, where's the frikking edit button. Again.
ok, thnx pc, just trying to help here. Did you pas my suggestion about the book deal? Even the Da Vinci code has footnotes, so that shouldn't be a problem. And can I be in the movie?
"I will defend your right to believe in nonsense." - Yeah, Right.
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