Saturday, 11 August 2018

QotD: "Plastic is not poison or pollution, it is litter."


"Plastic does not ‘poison’ anything. It’s non-toxic.... It’s litter, not pollution. Many people find it unsightly, and the solution is to educate people not to discard it into the environment and to organise, as is done on highways, to have it removed..."Plastic is not poison or pollution, it is litter."
~ Canadian ecologist and Greenpeace co-founder Dr. Patrick Moore, quoted in the article 'The War on Plastics is Dangerously Misguided,' and from his own essay, 'Twelve Invisible Eco-Catastrophes and Threats of Doom That are Actually Fake'
.

19 comments:

  1. Seriously? And the damage to marine ecosystems? I know, it’s trumped by the sheer joy you get from using a plastic straw. All hail the mighty Rand.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The plastic waste in marine ecosystems is from the half-dozen most polluted rivers in the world, none of which have anything to do with New Zealand.
      And, by the way, the Greens have banned bags, and not yet straws -- net impact of the ban being negative for the poor, who will need to buy bin liners; negative for freedom, since busybody gain more power to force folks' behaviour; and net positive for manufacturers of higher plastic content bags. Net result of their vacuous virtue signalling.
      And ... if you don't want plastic straws on beaches here, then don't litter. It needn't be that complicated.

      Delete
    2. It’s a global problem requiring action at multiple levels and jurisdictions. And while I don’t doubt for a second that your primary concern here is for the wellbeing of the poor, ignoring the issue as a paritulcalry weak anti-poverty measure even for a Randist.

      “Virtue signalling” went out as an insult in 2016, do keep up.

      And yep I’ve stopped dropping my plastic straws on the beach. That didn’t help, but great suggestion as always. And you call others vacuous. To be fair, though you’re more fatuous.

      Delete
    3. I’m quite certain none of the plastic straws I consume end up in the ocean.

      Delete
    4. Is that because you eat them?

      Delete
    5. Micro plastics can be toxic in a variety of ways. Unfortunately, as has been mentioned, 95% of micro plastics come from 10rivers in Asia, Africa, and South America. Modern landfills are designed to prevent any release of material, and are constantly monitored to verify this (I tried to get a few of these contracts). While the quote above is incorrect, combatting the error with flagrant implied lies hardly helps anyone, and in fact makes it harder to have a real conversation on these topics.

      Delete
    6. Yes, very little ends up in the ocean from Western countries, so banning plastic bags, that will never end up in the ocean anyway, will not solve the problem, but will create a host of unforeseen consequences.

      Delete
    7. Snowflake - because I throw the straws in my bin, and I know that from my bin it ends up in the Kate Valley landfill - not in the ocean. I also know that other regions in NZ have similar arrangements for disposing of waste that means they don't end up in the ocean, and nobody I know throws straws in the river or ocean. The fact you continue to insist that banning them in NZ is somehow important to the marine ecology, without even attempting to address the comments others have made in a similar vein suggests either dishonesty on your part, or an inability to process evidence and think clearly.

      Delete
    8. Oh well, there’s obviously no problem because you and everyone you know always throw their plastic in a bin and land fill processes here are perfect. Congratulations, point well made! There are therefore no plastic bags on the beach or in the ocean around NZ ever, and this is why. Evidence ladies and gentlemen, despite what your eyes tell you. This is typical of libertarian thought processes when confronted with a problem requiring collective action; first deny it exists (you’re here), second claim it’s not actually a real problem (where Peter’s at) third claim it’s not your fault (Dinwar), fourth claim the solution is worse (Dinwar again). Finally, hurl and insult or two and flounce off claiming victory over the slavering beast.

      Delete
  2. the drunken watchman11 Aug 2018, 19:34:00

    Yes. Snowflake appears to not have read your post properly. Conflates pollution and littering.

    Same old liberal trick - punish the innocent majority on account of the (unpunished) guilty minority. Just another power-grab.

    ReplyDelete
  3. The problem is, plastic breaks down into microscopic particles that CAN be toxic to sea creatures. It does this in a variety of ways, all well-documented. Large plastics are litter; after about six months, it becomes a more difficult issue.

    Again, though, the solution IS NOT to violate the rights of folks in industrialized nations. It is to demand those nations dumping this stuff into the sea in tons per hour start respecting property rights.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, nah. It’s everyone’s problem. Global supply chains implicate the industrialised world. Good to see you’ve accepting there is a problem requiring collective action, and not just falling back on arguments from authority, especially when that authority is the hopelessly compromised Patrick Moore.

      Delete
    2. "Hopelessly compromised" -- meaning he's publicly stated that the environmental movement in general Greenpeace in particular (the organisation he co-founded) has "abandoned science and logic in favour of emotion and sensationalism."

      Delete
    3. No, meaning he’s in the pocket of industry players who pay his mortgage. Jesus, at least do your research before committing logical fallacies. And it’s libertarians who have abandoned logic in favour of religious tenets. Exhibit A: this post.

      Delete
    4. Saying "Its everyone's problem" is merely a way to hide from the facts. Until you look at the situation rationally--and that means acknowledging thatplatic pollution comes from some places and not others--you are doomed to fail at fixing the problem AND you will destroy lives in the process. You are a fool, one who is sabatoging any real progress in environmental remediation. Irrational means cannot achieve rational ends, period.

      Delete
    5. That is patently false, and I see you have resorted to the traditional libertarian redoubt of abuse. Stop flailing around. You have admitted the need for collective action, which in itself is quite a concession for you guys, so thank you for that. Western nations help cause the problem (fact) and suffer from it (fact) so need to assist with solutions. Pretty basic.

      Delete
    6. "Stop flailing around."

      I have not flailed. You have failed to address the points I have raised. I have NEVER said anything about "collective action", much less professed any belief about such action--those are words YOU have put in my mouth.

      You continue to ignore the basic facts that plastic pollution arises from some places and not others. You continue to lay the blame for this pollution on the heads of the one group of cultures that has REDUCED pollution in the past century. You ignore anything that doesn't support your narrative.

      Having a rational discussion with you is obviously impossible. Your posts are apparently intended to preach, not to discuss, and I lost all interest in being preached at when I left the Church.

      Delete
  4. Plastic doesn’t get into the waterways by itself — obviously someone is putting it there. Let’s take a look at council, waste management practices and so on.

    We should be asking * how * plastic bags are getting into the oceans. I suspect it is poor landfill practices.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Somewhat. The rewal issue is that the countries dumping plastic into the ocean have little to no "landfill practices". Those that do (USA, Europe, other firstr-world nations) simply do not contribute a significant amount of plastic waste.

      Delete

1. Commenters are welcome and invited.
2. All comments are moderated. Off-topic grandstanding, spam, and gibberish will be ignored. Tu quoque will be moderated.
3. Read the post before you comment. Challenge facts, but don't simply ignore them.
4. Use a name. If it's important enough to say, it's important enough to put a name to.
5. Above all: Act with honour. Say what you mean, and mean what you say.