I can see that the block flow diagram for science has feed-back loops while that of faith is only open uni-direction (one-way only) loop (no feedback). Feedback is a self-correcting mechanism while open loop is not self-correcting at all. This means that if the input is wrong to start with in an open loop system then it will never ever be corrected for all time. Open-loop depicted in the diagram and thus for Faith is a static control system with no self-correction while the one depicted for science is adaptive via feedback thus it evolves over time.
You may enjoy this from Salon - http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2007/03/05/the_secret/index.html
Apart from the anti-capitalism bent the article is very good and shows just how invasive anti-intellectualism has become.
"Good things come to those who believe, whether it's belief in a diet, a God, or a Habit of Successful People. These believers may believe in the healing power of homeopathy, or Scripture or organizational skills -- in intelligent design, astrology or privatization. They all trust that their devotion will be rewarded with money and boyfriends and job promotions, with hockey championships and apartments".
James Randi Organization (a debunker of faith-based claim) has just recently covered that Oprah Winfrey ludicrous show.
I am surprised that the prosecutors in Shipton-Schollum-Rickards trial didn't call the NZ psychic & charlatan Jeanette Wilson to be a witness for the crown. Obviously she had claimed in the past that she can see events in the past and also can foresee the future. Wilson could have described in detail to the prosecutors about the supposedly actual rape, such things as what clothes that the accused or the victim were wearing. Since the trial didn't present any forensic evidence at all, the prosecutors might have called a psychic such as Mrs. Wilson to be a witness for the crown.
And of course, most faith-based practice requires that patient must abstain from sex for 40 days in order for the treatment to be effective. This type of faith-based treatment is exactly what John of God has just brought to suckers in Wellington over recent days. Those suckers throw in their money to heal John of God's purse.
Nope mitch, there are people who have actually studied what scientists do and did. The picture pc gives is the standard neopositivist account. However, things don't work like that in reality. Ever read "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions?"
Brian S, Karl Popper's book is about what scientists should do.
But what do they actually do? How does science work in the real world?
To say that scientists continually try to disprove theories is utter nonsense. They're not doing that. They don't abandon a theory when they have facts that don't agree with a theory.
Please Brian S, that's a very feeble reply. If someone doesn't do what Popper says he should, he isn't a scientist.
That excludes every Noble Prize Winner, Newton, Galileo, Einstein, just to name a few.
You propose a license program for scientist with a bureaucratically formulated process which if they do not follow, they are not allowed to call them scientist?
Your reply isn't an argument. It's pretty similar to the reply of a Marxists that the USSR wasn't truly Marxist if you point out a few flaws.
It is pretty meaningless to say: "if I don't agree what scientist do, they are not true scientists."
Especially if you cannot name a single scientists that works according to PC's nice diagram. Science did never operate like that and it never will.
Sorry Brian, what experiment did Einstein perform before creating his theory? It was quite the other way around, wasn't it? Just look at that diagram again.
And Einstein wasn't trying to falsify theories all the time. That isn't what scientists generally tend to do with their time. I doubt many companies would be prepared to pay for that.
Brian, why don't you just read a book on the subject, that would advance this debate much further. May I suggest another book: "Representing and intervening"?
Hat tip, Noodle Food.
13 comments:
I can see that the block flow diagram for science has feed-back loops while that of faith is only open uni-direction (one-way only) loop (no feedback). Feedback is a self-correcting mechanism while open loop is not self-correcting at all. This means that if the input is wrong to start with in an open loop system then it will never ever be corrected for all time. Open-loop depicted in the diagram and thus for Faith is a static control system with no self-correction while the one depicted for science is adaptive via feedback thus it evolves over time.
You may enjoy this from Salon -
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2007/03/05/the_secret/index.html
Apart from the anti-capitalism bent the article is very good and shows just how invasive anti-intellectualism has become.
"Good things come to those who believe, whether it's belief in a diet, a God, or a Habit of Successful People. These believers may believe in the healing power of homeopathy, or Scripture or organizational skills -- in intelligent design, astrology or privatization. They all trust that their devotion will be rewarded with money and boyfriends and job promotions, with hockey championships and apartments".
James Randi Organization (a debunker of faith-based claim) has just recently covered that Oprah Winfrey ludicrous show.
I am surprised that the prosecutors in Shipton-Schollum-Rickards trial didn't call the NZ psychic & charlatan Jeanette Wilson to be a witness for the crown. Obviously she had claimed in the past that she can see events in the past and also can foresee the future. Wilson could have described in detail to the prosecutors about the supposedly actual rape, such things as what clothes that the accused or the victim were wearing. Since the trial didn't present any forensic evidence at all, the prosecutors might have called a psychic such as Mrs. Wilson to be a witness for the crown.
And of course, most faith-based practice requires that patient must abstain from sex for 40 days in order for the treatment to be effective. This type of faith-based treatment is exactly what John of God has just brought to suckers in Wellington over recent days. Those suckers throw in their money to heal John of God's purse.
Your "Faith" diagram describes global warming "science" pretty well
Science doesn't work like that, which you would know if you had just read a single book on this subject. Try "Anything goes".
Has that very insightful (in my opinion) diagram hit a nerve Mr DeBoer? The reason I ask is that you list your favourite book as the Bible. :)
Nope mitch, there are people who have actually studied what scientists do and did. The picture pc gives is the standard neopositivist account. However, things don't work like that in reality. Ever read "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions?"
Brian S, Karl Popper's book is about what scientists should do.
But what do they actually do? How does science work in the real world?
To say that scientists continually try to disprove theories is utter nonsense. They're not doing that. They don't abandon a theory when they have facts that don't agree with a theory.
Just look at global warming for a good example.
Please Brian S, that's a very feeble reply. If someone doesn't do what Popper says he should, he isn't a scientist.
That excludes every Noble Prize Winner, Newton, Galileo, Einstein, just to name a few.
You propose a license program for scientist with a bureaucratically formulated process which if they do not follow, they are not allowed to call them scientist?
Your reply isn't an argument. It's pretty similar to the reply of a Marxists that the USSR wasn't truly Marxist if you point out a few flaws.
It is pretty meaningless to say: "if I don't agree what scientist do, they are not true scientists."
Especially if you cannot name a single scientists that works according to PC's nice diagram. Science did never operate like that and it never will.
Sorry Brian, what experiment did Einstein perform before creating his theory? It was quite the other way around, wasn't it? Just look at that diagram again.
And Einstein wasn't trying to falsify theories all the time. That isn't what scientists generally tend to do with their time. I doubt many companies would be prepared to pay for that.
Brian, why don't you just read a book on the subject, that would advance this debate much further. May I suggest another book: "Representing and intervening"?
My point? A lot happened after Popper. Such as that people actually looked at what scientists did, and how science worked, and game to be.
It didn't fit Popper's template (or any other neo-positivist's idea how science ought to work).
Brian, your 2nd paragraph is almost a perfect summary. Just add "not only". Thanks for the link.
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