tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post4905588173313976764..comments2024-03-30T00:09:27.602+13:00Comments on Not PC: Some background to Hamas's riotsPeter Cresswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-19804762466327614642018-05-17T18:02:21.788+12:002018-05-17T18:02:21.788+12:00Mark, large groups of Muslims tend not to assimila...Mark, large groups of Muslims tend not to assimilate well in western countries. This is an entirely separate issue from the illegal occupation of Gaza.<br /><br />"Illegal under whose law?"<br /><br />Try international law Mark. Being more "civilised" than their neighbours doesn't give Israel the right to occupy and brutalise them. In fact it kind of contradicts the notion they are more civilised.<br /><br />"Hordes of savages"<br /><br />This kind of narrative explains why Israelis are happy to kill people without reason. A key component is that this is a religious war for both sides. It's much easier to kill if you believe you're killing enemies of your imaginary friend in the sky. <br /><br />And where do you think these "savages" come from? A huge proportion would have lost relatives to the IDF and/or suffer from PTSD themselves. What makes you think you would have turned out any different if raised in the same circumstances? The IDF doesn't care about creating future Hamas fighters through its actions; it's all part & parcel of the religious war.<br /><br />"and why you'd believe the other sides account above theirs I can't fathom"<br /><br />Says a lot about the echo chamber you inhabit that you think there are just two accounts of this - the other being Hamas. There are many perspectives, if you bothered to look. Such as foreign journalists at the front line, and also no shortage of Israelis who are critical of the IDF. Some are highly qualified such as:<br /><br />https://www.businessinsider.com.au/israeli-veteran-says-idf-crossed-red-line-with-gaza-sniper-fire-2018-5?r=US&IR=T<br /><br />So there you have it Mark. Read widely; think for yourself. Make a conscious effort each day to be less of a tool.<br />Barrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-78143665052241591882018-05-17T10:59:26.713+12:002018-05-17T10:59:26.713+12:00It's revealing Barry that when we're talki...It's revealing Barry that when we're talking about Muslims who have left their native country to live a peaceful life elsewhere, you regard them as a serious threat; but when they're throwing rocks at Jews they're just harmless kids.<br /><br />As for your facts, which completely ignore the context:<br /><br />- "the Gaza border is illegal" - Illegal under whose law? Certainly not the law of the only civilized nation in the region, who's duty it is to protect the citizens, and who are surrounded on all sides by people who want to destroy them.<br /><br />"against kids either armed with rocks or nothing at all" - Just like an old women who approaches an armed convoy could be armed with nothing at all, or she could be a suicide bomber about to blow you up. Easy to criticize when you're not on the front line have to defend yourself from hordes of savages who want you dead.<br /><br />"mostly just regular Palestinians protesting" - Regular Palestinians who are probably somewhat unhinged by ideology, and according to the Israelis are being used by Hamas and others as a front to get weapons close to the border.<br /><br />Even if you're skeptical of the Israeli account (and why you'd believe the other sides account above theirs I can't fathom) - what would be the benefit to the Israelis of killing people without reason? As has been pointed out, any deaths on either wide only work against Israel in terms of public perception and international support.MarkThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199883270652041621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-45698307205431768192018-05-17T10:33:43.804+12:002018-05-17T10:33:43.804+12:00I wonder if the Hamas supporters want to read this...I wonder if the Hamas supporters want to read this about the 'peaceful' protest:<br /><br />http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/262200/palestinians-gaza-dying-photo-op<br /><br />Quote: '“We are excited to storm and get inside,” a 23-year-old Gazan named Mohammed Mansoura, told the Washington Post yesterday. “When asked what he would do inside Israel,” the newspaper reported, “he said, ‘Whatever is possible, to kill, throw stones.'”<br /><br />Jeez, I can't imagine at all why this dreadful IDF wouldn't allow more than 40,000 Mohammed's through the border just a five minute run away from a populated Israeli town. <br /><br />All this beggars belief. Yes, it's a damned shame the loss of life. But those fools are sent by Hamas to be killed. Israel well and truly warned of this result, so don't do it. IDF rang Gazan bus services saying don't bus people to the border. IDF in all cases were using in the first instance tear gas, then firing over heads with rubber bullets. What were they supposed to do?<br /><br />And even up to our government, universal condemnation of Israel: not even a mention that Hamas may also be culpable, or any condemnation of Gazan violence.Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-31472345635667282572018-05-17T09:09:17.992+12:002018-05-17T09:09:17.992+12:00Some major facts are conveniently omitted here, li...Some major facts are conveniently omitted here, like the fact that the Gaza border is illegal, the IDF is using live ammo against kids either armed with rocks or nothing at all, and it's mostly just regular Palestinians protesting, not Hamas (which was a creation of Israel anyway).<br /><br />So what we have here is a brutal state murdering people at their illegal border, and certain so-called libertarians are OK with this, citing American far-right garbage. Incredible.Barrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-11921025880334464922018-05-17T05:55:47.062+12:002018-05-17T05:55:47.062+12:00This is isn't Hamas and to frame this whole pr...This is isn't Hamas and to frame this whole protest as Hamas is innacurate. <br />The idea that israel was threatened is bogus. Israel is not a country that respects individual rights. I don't know why the western world continues to portray it as a civilised, rights respecting democracy. Kasper Kulakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14980656191667040080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-6135328521700300902018-05-16T19:40:28.916+12:002018-05-16T19:40:28.916+12:00But what about the free flow of people, ideas and ...But what about the free flow of people, ideas and goods across countries? Personally, I like the idea of secure borders and deciding who crosses them but then I'm a conservative who doesn't feel guilty about western civilisation being better than other offerings.<br /><br />3:16Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-66891612590162272162018-05-16T13:17:53.999+12:002018-05-16T13:17:53.999+12:00Re your last sentence, that's where Hamas is w...Re your last sentence, that's where Hamas is winning the PR war on this particular 'attack' (I won't call it a protest).<br /><br />But, with over 2700 injured how many tens of thousands of these young men armed with (from video) butchers knives, very lethal looking slingshots, improvised explosives, etc, are making a concerted effort to get across that border - a protest wouldn't be trying to break the border with hand weapons - and how many IDF soldiers are there to hold them back: perhaps 3,000 to 5,000 only, given the geography?<br /><br />That there has been no Israeli deaths speaks to the training of that army, buy they are defending themselves, all right, from what could become, if they drop the ball, an army of overwhelming numbers that would slaughter them to a last soldier given the chance. <br /><br />The NZ Green party via Davidson are dreadful and antisemitic, as normal, with not one criticism of what Hamas is doing here, and how cynically. I think it time the NZ Green party leadership clarify their position on even the legitimacy, to them, of the Israeli state, and on PA's continual statements that Israel is not legitimate and needs to destroyed. PA leader Mahmoud Abbas's comments last month that Jews deserved the holocaust should have warned Green's of the danger for them with their anti-Israeli agenda.Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.com