tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post8995774006492239137..comments2024-03-22T11:55:50.335+13:00Comments on Not PC: Waitangi Day: Something to celebratePeter Cresswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-22457207637232337082016-02-05T18:40:37.425+13:002016-02-05T18:40:37.425+13:00That's a brilliant and honest article - thank ...That's a brilliant and honest article - thank you for it.Barrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-18240276932959624292014-02-06T11:10:25.621+13:002014-02-06T11:10:25.621+13:00Great piece. Great piece. Sam Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09035978404256500568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-12347488017481212032014-02-06T07:39:28.920+13:002014-02-06T07:39:28.920+13:00"they only 'owned' what they owned. ..."they only 'owned' what they owned. That is to say, what Maori possessed were the specific lands and fisheries and foreshore and seabed they occupied and farmed and fished and used."<br /><br />Who says?Chaznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-76691576805459077272014-02-05T22:18:39.540+13:002014-02-05T22:18:39.540+13:00I really like your article - it makes points which...I really like your article - it makes points which have been forgotten but should be discussed in order to finally let things go. That being said, I would like your opinion on what you think Maori or the British should have done differently ( after the treaty was signed ), to address the fact that what was promised -& such lovely unifying gifts they were - was never given.And then it got really bad for Maori and it has been such a long long fight to get those promises realised. Perhaps Maori have been fighting over the wrong things and/or in a way that is unjust in the eyes of those today who feel wronged as well but how else should they have reacted? According to Western cultural standards they were at the time a savage stone-age race incapable of advancing themselves without the aid of Western gifts.If that is so, how else should we have expected them to react to promises never given & their lands confiscated without fear & anger?<br /> It reminds me of Shylock's promise to Salano & Sararino Act 3, Merchant of Venice: <br /><br />I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is? If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge. If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. <br /> (III.i.49–61)<br /><br />I will not be celebrating Waitangi Day here in germyland as being of french, Scottish & Maori descent - i am already at war - with myself, contradicting, hating, loving, tormenting and in the end, hoping & wishing for peace. <br /><br />Mrs Loveshack ;-) ( hallo Peter! )Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-28313350299247683502014-02-05T19:57:24.839+13:002014-02-05T19:57:24.839+13:00If it wasn't for TV and politicians this would...If it wasn't for TV and politicians this would have died a natural years ago in respect of protest. Doesn't Harawira scrub up well even though she's a nobody that Key should ignore? Still, Mugabe wears a suit I guess.<br /><br />What is appalling is that no political party will stand up to this nonsense and that makes me wonder if those old articles Wishart wrote about the govt being illegal have legs - they dare not say "no" as that opens Pandorra's box. Thinking rationally and having a copy of the treaty and drafts (the old govt fax) I see nothing about joint anything so I see no reason to pander to the Maori at all.<br /><br />Two good reads are the Bible and the Treaty along with the Musket Wars. The former won't offend the secular because its simply history without preaching and both explain much of the thinking behind the progress toward a treaty. The treaty will eventually be the end of us and Maori, thinking rationally for them will take what was never theirs in the first place before imploding.<br /><br />3:16Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-56189272127673168542014-02-05T18:45:26.019+13:002014-02-05T18:45:26.019+13:00..."what Captain Hobson brought to New Zealan......"what Captain Hobson brought to New Zealand with the Treaty along with British law (which then meant something) was Western Culture—which, uniquely, makes it possible to see one another not as 'peoples,' not as part of a tribe or a race, but each of us as sovereign individuals in our own right."<br /><br />British Law does not grant sovereignty to individuals. Sovereignty is with the Crown. It was the same elsewhere through the British Empire. Individuals are subservient to the Crown. It is difficult to think of anywhere in the West where it is true that the individual is sovereign and not the Crown or some monarch or other government institution. At one time in the USA that ideal was approached in theory but it was never the case in practice. <br /><br />This article is interesting. Thank you for it. <br /><br />I understand not to go over to Waitange "celebrations" due to the trouble and the unpleasantness of it all. What would be an improvement would be to make it a normal working day for everyone and then everyone can get on with whatever it is they ought to be doing instead of wasting time all day. <br /><br />I reckon the foreman in the factory last night got it right when he said that he treats everyone at work the same. "They are all lazy arse bludgers".<br /><br />Amit Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-23457076765127036672014-02-05T15:36:59.291+13:002014-02-05T15:36:59.291+13:00A great article. The sad thing is that virtually n...A great article. The sad thing is that virtually nobody in the country knows any of this, or would believe a word of it were they to read your article.<br /><br />The only other country in the World where the conventional wisdom about their history is not only completely false, but also universally accepted as the truth, is Zimbabwe.<br /><br />The difference is that Mugabe knows perfectly well his 'Year Zero' 1979 onwards "History of Zimbabwe" claims about Ian Smith and Rhodesia are false, (he was, afterall, there at the time between 1965 and 79 and knows he just made it all up) yet in New Zealand the Treaty scam artists <i>genuinely</i> think what they are claiming is correct. Odd.Mr Lineberrynoreply@blogger.com