tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post8641065293914715947..comments2024-03-29T10:51:27.752+13:00Comments on Not PC: The Bhopal disaster and beyondPeter Cresswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-38804911943773415922010-06-08T21:38:02.178+12:002010-06-08T21:38:02.178+12:00Falafulu, you're getting laissez-faire free ma...Falafulu, you're getting laissez-faire free markets - the economic bedrock of a free society - mixed up with politics in a democracy, when democracy is a tyranny of the majority, anathema to a free society, or laissez-faire free markets.<br /><br />Thus, what you describe is NOT an 'unintended consequence of capitalism'. It's simply not capitalism.<br /><br />Or, as you have stated, democracies produce 'crony capitalism', which is just another collectivism: nothing to do with laissez-faire.<br /><br /><br /><br />... ps. Oh. As Mark wisely said. I'll post this anyway to rub the point in.Mark Hubbardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-26551877771068807992010-06-08T14:20:20.958+12:002010-06-08T14:20:20.958+12:00lobbying is a direct result of a mixed economy. Wh...lobbying is a direct result of a mixed economy. When government has the power to regulate economic activity, individuals will seek to influence that power. When government has the power to arbitrarily dictate the actions of individuals, individuals will seek legislation that is favorable to them.<br /><br />The logical result is pressure group politics, in which individuals band together to exert influence on legislators. Whether the group is a union, a business, or a special interest, it will claim that the "common good" or "public interest" requires legislation that provides it with special benefits at the expense of those who are not a member of that group. This is true whether the legislation prescribes or proscribes, whether the legislation confers tax benefits, or creates entitlement programs, or attempts to stimulate some industry.Monoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-69614559952566338942010-06-08T12:49:30.104+12:002010-06-08T12:49:30.104+12:00@ FF: I don't agree that business having to lo...@ FF: I don't agree that business having to lobby and influence gov't is an "unintended natural consequence of capitalism". If a business needs to bribe politicians in self defence, then what you don't have is capitalism, but some corruption of it.<br /><br />In a true capitalist society a government is limited to it's core functions of defending your rights. No matter how much money you throw at them, the gov't can't do anything else but that - either for you or against you.MarkThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199883270652041621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-58008368532907555652010-06-08T12:09:37.154+12:002010-06-08T12:09:37.154+12:00One thing that supporters of capitalism (I am one)...One thing that supporters of capitalism (I am one) fail to grasp.<br /><br />- Big corporates donate money to politicians and politicians can't refuse it. To refuse it, then that politician will never ever get to office. So, a politician will always do some favors in return to whoever funded his campaign. If we say that it is something bad, ie, political donation, because it is vote buying, then why not completely ban political donation instead of having a cap on how much can one donate? But doing that, capitalism supporters, will say, that's suppressing free-speech. You can't have it both ways. You either live with it, be it crony capitalism and accept that's the way it is in the real world or one can keep moaning or contradicting him/herself when big corporates cosy up to politicians. If you don't cosy up, then politicians will start drafting legislation that are not favourable to them.<br /><br />- One of John Stossel's show (available on youtube) on <i>crony capitalism</i>, highlighted that Bill Gates never had lobby in Washington before the anti-trust case against him, but now Microsoft has got or funded a lobby group in Washington today. Here is a fact. If Bill Gates doesn't do that, he will see endless anti-trust lawsuits coming from Washington against Microsoft. Bill Gates has done nothing morally wrong, because he got to the top by pure hard work. But politicians always try to act in a manner that look favourable to misguided voters. For example, taking the anti-trust action against Microsoft makes lots of voters jump & down in joy. These idiot voters will keep voting for whoever politician that had spearheaded such anti-trust. So, what Bill Gates should have done? Do nothing and your company ended up being destroyed by politician or cosy up? Well, he chose to cosy up as evident by having a lobby group in Washington. I would do the same thing as Bill Gates if I were him. It is an unintended natural consequence of capitalism. The only thing to stop vote buying is via a gun. See, Stalin, Saddam, Castro didn't need to buy votes at all.Falafulu Fisinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-22308492716530800702010-06-08T12:01:08.466+12:002010-06-08T12:01:08.466+12:00(As en example, BP would be well underway now towa...<i>(As en example, BP would be well underway now towards being part owned by its collective victims, as would have been Union Carbide).</i><br /><br />Care to elaborate/link?StephenRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08717556420960471541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-39603686657622524882010-06-08T11:35:59.240+12:002010-06-08T11:35:59.240+12:00Agree on complete separation of state and economic...Agree on complete separation of state and economics, but would add a complete separation of executive and judicial branches (i.e. a solid constitution), together with reinstatement of a true and accessible common law legal system.<br />This would sort this sorry mess out very quickly. (As en example, BP would be well underway now towards being part owned by its collective victims, as would have been Union Carbide).Berryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03208575304505689135noreply@blogger.com