tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post7600893451031139945..comments2024-03-18T17:17:00.423+13:00Comments on Not PC: A kerfuffle in a falafel food hall [update 2)Peter Cresswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-40684327467753763192009-01-27T13:50:00.000+13:002009-01-27T13:50:00.000+13:00If this Jew-hater wants to exclude trading with Je...If this Jew-hater wants to exclude trading with Jews in his business – then of course that is his right.<BR/><BR/>But, don’t wait till tourists enter the shop sit down with their toddlers and make their order, and then be rude & abusive to them based on their homeland and religion – that is frankly obnoxious behavior & should be vilified. <BR/><BR/>This goes both ways.<BR/><BR/>By signifying you hate Jews, non-Muslims etc (via web site, signs etc) then the targets of your hatred will happily spend their money elsewhere and next time I’m in Invercargill people like me will make their choice to avoid frequenting their establishment.<BR/><BR/>Conversely supporters like you Libz can hold-up this Mustafa as some sort of hero for ‘the cause’ & keep shaking his hand and ordering ‘double-helpings’. <BR/><BR/>This isn’t about the Governments reaction (my opinion on Race Relations etc is much the same as yours) it’s about maintaining some civil dignity & not bringing hatred ‘from the old country’ to a new one.<BR/><BR/>Abusing and threatening tourists because you do not like their religion/country something I don’t want to see in New Zealand – whether or not it is ones right & liberty. <BR/><BR/>Gotta shoot.<BR/><BR/>Paul. <BR/><BR/>PS: Oh yeah I somewhat doubt this guy would have the guts to tell two Hebrew speaking males to “piss-off” or put a sign-up.Canterbury Atheistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09900223059660267657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-56843419152687447152009-01-27T08:23:00.000+13:002009-01-27T08:23:00.000+13:00Yes, I must confess I wouldn't want to shake Musta...Yes, I must confess I wouldn't want to shake Mustafa's hand.<BR/><BR/>There's a vast difference between defending someone's right to do what they wish on their own property, and defending what it is they wish to do.<BR/><BR/>One has the perfect right to put out signs saying either "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" or "No Bigots" -- just as customers have the perfect right to make their own choices based on such signs.<BR/><BR/>All that said, while I disagree with Mustafa's anti-Israeli attitude, in a time of war it's perfectly understandable that a chap is going to have strong views, and perfectly right that he should be able to exercise his own views on his own property without attracting the attentions of the country's busybodies.<BR/><BR/>Isn't that the adult way to approach things?Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-41898357570898363492009-01-27T06:47:00.000+13:002009-01-27T06:47:00.000+13:00Canterbury AtheistThe idea that the "N.Z Immigrati...Canterbury Atheist<BR/><BR/>The idea that the "N.Z Immigration simply give all visitors from Israel or those with Jewish sounding surnames, say an armband to identify them" relies on an assumption that the government owns New Zealand and ALL those who reside there. In doing as you suggested such a government would be "exercising its property right." That is, there are Government Rights, but no Individual Rights- certainly no Individual Property Rights. Such a situation is quite different from the owner of a retail shop refusing to serve other people or do business with other people. It is different from the owner of a retail shop behaving offensively within the domain of his premises and business. It is different from his erecting a sign- offensive or not. <BR/><BR/>It is important to understand what Libertarianism is and what it is not. <BR/><BR/>LGMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-86780144419811270152009-01-26T16:36:00.000+13:002009-01-26T16:36:00.000+13:00The Muslim owner should make it easier for custome...The Muslim owner should make it easier for customers to make a considered choice as to frequent his establishment by indicating who he won’t serve via a sign on the outside - not after they enter and sit-down with their toddlers.<BR/><BR/>Something along the lines: ‘We don’t serve Jews, Non-Believers, American Imperialists’ should do just fine.<BR/><BR/>Failing that idea, why doesn’t N.Z Immigration simply give all visitors from Israel or those with Jewish sounding surnames, say an armband to identify them?<BR/><BR/>I think you are taking this libertarian business too far on this one.<BR/><BR/>Paul.Canterbury Atheistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09900223059660267657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-63051107957595957162009-01-25T11:32:00.000+13:002009-01-25T11:32:00.000+13:00Why on earth shake the hand of a racist for simply...Why on earth shake the hand of a racist for simply exercising his property rights?<BR/><BR/>As a libertarian, I agree that he should absolutely be able to say who may or may not enter his property, but that doesn't mean I approve of racist protesting, or think he's some hero worthy of support.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't idolize a KKK leader for putting a sign outside his shop saying "Blacks suck", just because he happened to own the sign and the shop in which it hung. I'd think "Golly gosh, that guy's a dick".<BR/><BR/>It's hardly an act of heroism. It's bigotry.<BR/><BR/>I hope he goes out of business, because he sounds like a dick. <BR/><BR/>Whatever happened to "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-29997578885209344892009-01-24T21:05:00.000+13:002009-01-24T21:05:00.000+13:00Last Thursday my son & I shook Mustafa's h...Last Thursday my son & I shook Mustafa's hand - and ate his rather fine kebabs.<BR/>We usually frequent one of the other kebab houses - of which we are rather well serves here in Invercargill.<BR/><BR/>With his fine kebabs, best coffee in town and a penchant for exercising his property rights, he has my (slightly semitic) support. <BR/>Sadly, such are peoples attitudes down here - it seems he may need our support more than ever...Shane Pleasancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06144367923437327037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-60163643258172138672009-01-18T12:40:00.000+13:002009-01-18T12:40:00.000+13:00If the Cafe owner hung a sign saying "Keine Juden ...If the Cafe owner hung a sign saying "Keine Juden und Keine Hunde" I'm sure very few would visit - Gentiles or non-canine included.<BR/><BR/>And the cafe owner would realise that he needs to modify his attitude, or go broke - far more readily that if the Government told him to.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03143204319427258454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-72308449367721255112009-01-17T07:22:00.000+13:002009-01-17T07:22:00.000+13:00Jackie"My point was that there are a number of peo...Jackie<BR/><BR/>"My point was that there are a number of people who vociferously demand freedoms (such as free speech) for themselves that they also vociferously argue against others having and that it I suspect that this cafe owner is one such person."<BR/><BR/>You're probably right. He likely is such a knob head. <BR/><BR/>LGMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-5405726176388477452009-01-17T00:21:00.000+13:002009-01-17T00:21:00.000+13:00Sure the two women did not have anything to do wit...Sure the two women did not have anything to do with what happend, but its his cafe. <BR/>good post as usual.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-75294701056478062132009-01-16T17:23:00.000+13:002009-01-16T17:23:00.000+13:00LGM - I agree that the cafe owner should be able t...LGM - I agree that the cafe owner should be able to deny service (and indeed access to his premises) on any basis that he considers appropriate.<BR/><BR/>My point was that there are a number of people who vociferously demand freedoms (such as free speech) for themselves that they also vociferously argue against others having and that it I suspect that this cafe owner is one such person.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-3377885058787619982009-01-16T16:06:00.000+13:002009-01-16T16:06:00.000+13:00JackieThe cafe owner can properly deny service to ...Jackie<BR/><BR/>The cafe owner can properly deny service to those he disagrees with or does not like. Similarly other people can properly refuse to patronise his cafe or do business with him. Something tells me that the cafe owner is going to find business dropping off and revenues declining. Perhaps he'll think on why that may be. Perhaps he won't. It's his business. <BR/><BR/>LGMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-13238385986983012692009-01-16T12:11:00.000+13:002009-01-16T12:11:00.000+13:00The cafe owners are correct - freedom of speech is...The cafe owners are correct - freedom of speech is extremely important. I'm sure they backed the Danish press when they published the Mohammed cartoons on just that basis - yeah, right! The trouble with people like this who claim to believe in freedom of speech is that they think it should only apply to themselves and those who share their (usually disgusting) opinions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-42335997848301749342009-01-16T12:08:00.000+13:002009-01-16T12:08:00.000+13:00Well said.I am going to shamelessly reproduce part...Well said.<BR/><BR/>I am going to shamelessly reproduce part of my comment made on Kiwblog (capitalism is all about efficiency after all):<BR/><BR/>When “human rights” are allowed to over rule property rights, e.g. if the cafe owner was forced to serve Israelis, then we lose our freedom. So-called “hate speech” laws are the same thing, i.e. they violate a person’s right to say whatever they like when they are using their own property to say it.<BR/><BR/>There’s no such thing as “human rights”, there’s only property rights:<BR/><A HREF="http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/11/04/there-is-no-such-thing-as-human-rights-a-classical-liberal-perspective-on-the-electoral-finance-act/" REL="nofollow">http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/11/04/there-is-no-such-thing-as-human-rights-a-classical-liberal-perspective-on-the-electoral-finance-act/</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-84709890792857627602009-01-16T10:00:00.000+13:002009-01-16T10:00:00.000+13:00Whats wrong AA...? You don't control what happens ...Whats wrong AA...? You don't control what happens on your property? You allow anyone who wants to to tramp all over your rights?<BR/><BR/>Grow up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-27079734823383691912009-01-16T05:32:00.000+13:002009-01-16T05:32:00.000+13:00...along with Mrs Bennie's two children Noah, 2, a...<I>...along with Mrs Bennie's two children Noah, 2, and Ella, 4, should shut the hell up and accept...</I><BR/><BR/>Okaaay..quietly shutting the door now and walking away from the Libertarian freaks.AngloAmerikanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02002362092073890146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-8971019574048190752009-01-15T17:51:00.000+13:002009-01-15T17:51:00.000+13:00well written Peter, on the nail as usual.well written Peter, on the nail as usual.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-31712382652893538682009-01-15T16:25:00.000+13:002009-01-15T16:25:00.000+13:00Well said, Peter!I wrote a similar post on my own ...Well said, Peter!<BR/><BR/>I wrote a similar post on my own blog, but the principle of the thing is what is important in this matter.<BR/><BR/>Most people, 'especially' a few self proclaimed "libertarians", I am sorry to say, believe that rights and freedoms only apply to those with whom they agree....rather than everyone.Elijah Lineberryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12626477239489811223noreply@blogger.com