tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post5846011227794039416..comments2024-03-22T11:55:50.335+13:00Comments on Not PC: Taking the Christ out of Christmas?Peter Cresswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-56890119260952455422009-01-03T19:08:00.000+13:002009-01-03T19:08:00.000+13:002000 years of Christianity and Western thought, an...<I>2000 years of Christianity and Western thought, and all the history in that time has got us to the point where I can be an atheist without someone burning me at the stake for it.</I><BR/><BR/>Of course, throughout most of those 2000 years it would have been the Christians burning you at the stake...and before that, nobody would likely have been burning you at the stake at all anyway...so you could have just skipped the 2000 years of Christianity and the odd burned corpse with much the same end result.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-49119278495443557672008-12-23T14:34:00.000+13:002008-12-23T14:34:00.000+13:00AnonymousYou really do need to acquaint yourself w...Anonymous<BR/><BR/>You really do need to acquaint yourself with fact sometime.<BR/><BR/>LGMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-14293363597405023982008-12-23T12:30:00.000+13:002008-12-23T12:30:00.000+13:00Along with Guy Fawkes, New Zealand’s inherited ann...Along with Guy Fawkes, New Zealand’s inherited annual celebration of The Winter Solstice on the 25th December, has to be one of the more absurd ‘holiday’ observances going.<BR/><BR/>Who in New Zealand gives a ‘rats arse’ that this date heralds the onset of winter in the northern hemisphere, when down-under we are basking in sunshine, donning shorts, and lazing on beaches?<BR/><BR/>And if the Christians wanted to pinch this date from the pagans & Mythraics and call it their own – why should we follow suit and act like that this date is any more relevant than say the 25th of August or the 07th February?<BR/><BR/>Pick a date, any date for the birth of Christ, they all have the same basis in fact.<BR/><BR/>That’s to say…..none.<BR/><BR/>It’s not yours, or my fault, no one bothered to put crucial information like dates of births in The Bible and the ‘desperate & dateless’ Catholic Church said “this Winter Solstice the sun worshippers use will do the trick” ten plus centuries ago.<BR/><BR/>This plagiarism of holiday observance dates may have some historic validity in say England, where winter falls at this time and where folks got naked & worshipped the sun (prior to do-gooders spoiling their fun) but the date has no credence in New Zealand.<BR/><BR/>Christmas, is New Zealand’s cultural equivalent of a legacy from a dead distant uncle, who liked wearing brown-suits & grey shoes, and expects you to now don them.<BR/><BR/>Hey, don’t get me wrong I totally support the principal of New Zealanders taking time off from work, drinking to excess, connecting with friends and family, venerating the deity of their choice (as long as it’s away from me), exchanging crappy gifts, adding to the countries obesity epidemic – but on the date of Winter Solstice when its’ 25 degrees Celsius outside?<BR/><BR/>Get outta here!<BR/><BR/>Then there’s the issue of Christians who conveniently ignore those ‘gapping blanks’ in their most precious book, and want the rest of us to go along with their historic pantomime and pretend, like they do, that Christ was born on this date – when he wasn’t!<BR/><BR/>These are the very same group of zealots that want us to be fine up-standing & honest citizens – but when it suits their own purposes they ‘never let the facts get in the way of a good story’.<BR/><BR/>If we are going to continue celebrating sacred pagan holidays - why stop at just Christmas and Easter?<BR/><BR/>And why should Christians have the monopoly on stealing & re-packaging pagan holidays and forcing them on the rest of us?<BR/><BR/>I want to lead a campaign to make New Zealand the first country to officially re-introduce the traditional Celtic observance ‘Beltane Day’, in place of the naff Winter Solstice (a.k.a Christmas).<BR/><BR/>Start circling the 01st May on your calendars.<BR/><BR/>Here’s a brief synopsis on what Beltane Day is all about so you make your own conclusions as to its merits:<BR/><BR/>In old Celtic traditions it was a time of unabashed sexuality and promiscuity where marriages of a year and a day could be undertaken but it is rarely observed in that manner in modern times.<BR/><BR/>In the old Celtic times, young people would spend the entire night in the woods "A-Maying," and then dance around the phallic Maypole the next morning. Older married couples were allowed to remove their wedding rings (and the restrictions they imply)<BR/><BR/>In a few years no one will remember Christmas!<BR/><BR/>Have a happy Northern winter solstice with your 'love ones' (not in a Christian Heritage term of the phrase)<BR/><BR/>May Santa bring you a nice dark ale. <BR/><BR/>Paul.Canterbury Atheistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09900223059660267657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-31315416845136690902008-12-23T10:52:00.000+13:002008-12-23T10:52:00.000+13:00Actually LGm, there is a difference. In 2008 it i...Actually LGm, there is a difference. In 2008 it isn't Chrisitans murdering people for failure to belong to their creed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-58647941938864082792008-12-23T10:42:00.000+13:002008-12-23T10:42:00.000+13:00Quoting: "All you people who hate Christians so mu...Quoting: "All you people who hate Christians so much should look a little more at who is actually trying to enforce their religion on you in the 21st Century. The OIC has bascially got the UN on the way to declaring islamophobia (any copmment or criticism of Islam by infidels) a crime."<BR/><BR/>Firstly, did anyone say they hated Christians? The hate seems to be FROM the Christians, directed TOWARDS those who do not agree with what the Christians are writing and won't be forced into submission to what those same Christians demand...<BR/><BR/>Next. Whether it is Islamics or Christians attempting to force their ideas onto others, it's all about the same muck- religion. Fundamentally, what flavour of religion it happens to be makes little difference. At base religion is uncivilised and unfit for Man. It relies on frustration of the faculty of reason. <BR/> <BR/>Similarly, collectivism of various sorts, whether national socialism, democratic socialism, communism, liberal socialism, welfarism, egalitarianism, mixed economy, environmentalism, global warming, central planning, big government, supra-national govt etc. etc. etc. is all the same muck- collectivism. The flavour may vary some, but it all smells just as bad. At base the ideas are uncivilised and unfit for Man. <BR/><BR/>Moving on. This season is an excellent time to celebrate the joy of being alive, the value of good friends, the excellence of good food and drink, one's family and relatives, enjoyment of good things (including presents but also one's home and property etc), one's adventures over the past year (successes, errors and learnings) and it's the time to get prepared for the next year of adventures. Get well rested and ready for a challenging new year of independence and living as one ought.<BR/><BR/>LGMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-21823825828076049942008-12-22T15:18:00.000+13:002008-12-22T15:18:00.000+13:00Enjoy Christmas, regardless of your belief. I do....Enjoy Christmas, regardless of your belief. I do.<BR/><BR/>Excuse the liberty, PC, but a personal note to FF:<BR/><BR/>Hope you got my msge on Sat morn - and trust the party went well that evening?<BR/><BR/>The emergency chiro knew what he was doing as it happened .. I was no good all Sat, still hobbling yesterday, albeit less so, with back nearly right today.<BR/><BR/>Sorry to have missed it. Better luck next year, eh? :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-70065302978672962782008-12-22T13:01:00.000+13:002008-12-22T13:01:00.000+13:00Christians forcing themselves and their belifes on...<I>Christians forcing themselves and their belifes on others is just as wrong as when the PC try to do it coming the otherway</I><BR/><BR/>Can you point out to some examples here? I bet that you can't find a single one. I suggest that these banning are all in your imaginations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-87327350615148936752008-12-22T12:11:00.000+13:002008-12-22T12:11:00.000+13:00Brian....its the pushy,arrogant way SOME of the Ch...Brian....its the pushy,arrogant way SOME of the Christians act in trying to flop all over Christmas while remaining wilfully blind to other influences that make Christmas what it is that piss's many of us off...<BR/><BR/>I can live with Christ being part of the Christmas tradition as we have it now....it would be stupid to pretend it could be otherwise...the mans name is in the title after all.<BR/><BR/>And I think its wankey and wrong to try to ban or hide the nativity so as not to "offend" people....for fucks sake!<BR/><BR/>But....Christians forcing themselves and their belifes on others is just as wrong as when the PC try to do it coming the otherway.....how about we just leave everyone to do their own thing and respect their right to do so?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-8056099640166388032008-12-22T09:36:00.000+13:002008-12-22T09:36:00.000+13:00So many atheists are living in the wrong century. ...So many atheists are living in the wrong century. I am an atheist and I love Christmas. I actually like Christianity as well. If you have to have a belief in fairies, it is one of the better ones. 2000 years of Christianity and Western thought, and all the history in that time has got us to the point where I can be an atheist without someone burning me at the stake for it. All you people who hate Christians so much should look a little more at who is actually trying to enforce their religion on you in the 21st Century. The OIC has bascially got the UN on the way to declaring islamophobia (any copmment or criticism of Islam by infidels) a crime.<BR/><BR/>There are worse things than a bunch of people celebrating the birth of their favourite deity on the back of an older festival.<BR/><BR/>Brian SmallerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-27116275055221549952008-12-22T06:39:00.000+13:002008-12-22T06:39:00.000+13:00Lee SBefore you read that stuff read this for an h...Lee S<BR/><BR/>Before you read that stuff read this for an honest perspective:<BR/><BR/>http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/200512_an_atheist_manifesto/<BR/><BR/>LGMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-22144581989352835172008-12-21T17:16:00.000+13:002008-12-21T17:16:00.000+13:00I enjoy reading notPC and your views but disagree ...I enjoy reading notPC and your views but disagree on this subject and find your attitude too uncompromising. I wouldn't class myself as a Christian but I like the historical Jesus who stood up to the establishment and was crucified for it.<BR/><BR/>My thoughts on this are more in line with U.S libertarians Robert Ringer and Vox Day and I intend reading Day's book 'The Irrational Atheist' which I understand is his rebuttal of Dawkins, Harris etc. Merry XmasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-54791908318178170352008-12-21T16:35:00.000+13:002008-12-21T16:35:00.000+13:00Great post! I thought about sending out Happy Satu...Great post! I thought about sending out Happy Saturnalia cards this year, and I still want to find a little porcelain solar-system Nativity set! I would set it in hay and everything. :)Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07742691135219348355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-63647719201281793482008-12-20T15:56:00.000+13:002008-12-20T15:56:00.000+13:00Christmas would be great if only those bloody Chri...Christmas would be great if only those bloody Christians weren't always whinging on about how its "all about them and their Ghost and his kid"....<BR/><BR/><BR/>Before God was dreamed up people were perfectly able to make merry and have a good time with their fellows at this time of year without the doom/gloomers hovering about spoiling things<BR/><BR/><BR/>Sod off!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-32563731699084535122008-12-20T12:57:00.000+13:002008-12-20T12:57:00.000+13:00PC, your faux outrage on behalf of those poor, dow...PC, your faux outrage on behalf of those poor, downtrodden pagans is tiresome.<BR/>After all, they had a religion too - and we all know you don't like religions. So stop using them as an excuse to stomp on Christians.<BR/><BR/>Yep, just keep encouraging us here in the West to take the "Christ" out of Christmas - so we can all be "civilized." Let's strip the meaning out of all our festivals and traditions while we're at it.<BR/>Oops, that's right we've almost already achieved that objective. And perfect rationality has indeed broken out all over the West, you see it every day. <BR/><BR/>As far as this issue is concerned, libertarians seem to march in lockstep with the left - different ideolgies, same outcome.<BR/>Strip us of the strong (judaeo-christian)underpinnings of our society. Leave us supine and uncertain of ourselves. Ready, just like those pagans, to be slowly subsumed by a culture utterly confident that it is in the right, and has God on its side.<BR/>(Have Muslims taken the Allah out of Eid yet? No, I didn't thnk so.)<BR/><BR/>In conclusion, before I'm accused of being a fundy nutbar - I am an athiest. But I still deeply value the roots and traditions of my culture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-14791788910951823622008-12-20T08:26:00.000+13:002008-12-20T08:26:00.000+13:00so to all the fuckers out there who moan about chr...<I>so to all the fuckers out there who moan about christmas celebrations, just bud out</I><BR/><BR/>meant to say:<BR/><BR/><I>so to all the fuckers out there who moan about christmas celebrations, just butt out</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-13378703815070050372008-12-20T04:31:00.000+13:002008-12-20T04:31:00.000+13:00"... don't coerce (oh , a libertarianz term) or tr..."... don't coerce (oh , a libertarianz term) or try to educate what others enjoy, because we're all adults."<BR/><BR/>I'll remember that line the next time a US-based Christian Church picks my pocket for one of it's Federally funded 'faith-based' initiatives.<BR/><BR/>As for Xmas: I know the Pagan and Christian origins of it and don't give a fig. Xmas is what I choose to make of it and the rest of you can bugger off. <BR/><BR/>But do keep the noise down though, it's hard enough to hear the the Boxing Day test match and the Horse Racing commentary in the US without you lot crapping on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-41375192026411440162008-12-20T00:54:00.000+13:002008-12-20T00:54:00.000+13:00I love christmas and I am having a christmas carol...I love christmas and I am having a christmas carol singing party tonight (20th, Saturday, Dec). Drink and singing and not much about fuckn' reasoning. It is about, well sort of body reflex mechanism, it means that oneself gets used to it with or without understanding of what christmas is all about. Mostly, it is about traditions. <BR/><BR/>I grew up knowing christmas as a time of enjoyment, religion or otherwise, that is personal choice, so to all the <B>fuckers</B> out there who moan about christmas celebrations, just bud out, if you don't enjoy it, just enjoy whatever you and nobody criticizes you for doing so. Do not bang on other people's rights to enjoy what they like to celebrate, just celebrate whatever you like to celebrate, don't coerce (oh , a libertarianz term) or try to educate what others enjoy, because we're all adults.<BR/><BR/>Merry XMas to all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-82819198190732628322008-12-19T21:09:00.000+13:002008-12-19T21:09:00.000+13:00That's just your biases speaking LGM. Nothing I s...That's just your biases speaking LGM. Nothing I said was particularly rude. As for range of topic, this is my first time to comment on Christmas - Peter has taken the time to do an entire post.<BR/><BR/>As for being "unchristian", it seems a bit rich to complain about that when the tone of the post (cancer etc with a touch of "the grinch pope") comes out with fists looking for a nose.<BR/><BR/>Christmas is about Christ for Christians, and no amount of bleating can change that. It's also about family and giving for others, and there's nothing wrong with that either.<BR/><BR/>And for satanists, pagans and others who didn't get out of bed on December 21, well, I'm not stopping them from a revel on December 25 too.<BR/><BR/>Fleece on earth and good wool to all men. Just don't act like wolves and expect Christians to remain sheep. Although, we try :-).<BR/><BR/>Merry Christmas to all, even you godless heathens with flailing fists. Ya punch like a big girls blouse anyway :-)ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-61680802695590782792008-12-19T21:05:00.000+13:002008-12-19T21:05:00.000+13:00What we do at Christmas:advent wreathsNO! advent c...What we do at Christmas:<BR/><BR/>advent wreaths<BR/><BR/>NO! <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>advent calendars <BR/><BR/>NO!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>the Christian Mass<BR/><BR/>NO!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Worshipping imaginary spirit monster ghost things<BR/><BR/>NO!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Respectfully listening to imbeciles raving on about how they believe in fairies, pixies, devils, spirits, supernatural worlds and the like<BR/><BR/>NO!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Respecting the feelings of such morons<BR/><BR/>NO!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Kneeling and praying to imaginary friends<BR/><BR/>NO!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Drinking like a Pagan<BR/><BR/>YES!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Eating like a Pagan<BR/><BR/>YES!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Giving and receiving gifts like a Pagan<BR/><BR/>YES!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Singing, dancing and chanting like Pagans<BR/><BR/>YES!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Go visiting atheistic friends to enjoy their company and eat their food and drink their grog with them<BR/><BR/>YES!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Geting fully imersed in commerical activity because that's fun and also an enriching exoerience.<BR/><BR/>YES!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Commercialised? Pagan? Secularised?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Bring it on. It's civilised. <BR/><BR/><BR/>LGMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-71744018203512624332008-12-19T20:52:00.000+13:002008-12-19T20:52:00.000+13:00My oh my! Have the god botherers got their undies...My oh my! Have the god botherers got their undies all twisted up over this or what. <BR/><BR/>Funny how this is the subject that raises any passion with them. The economy can be tanked, the socialists can be busy expropriating wealth and destroying productivity, politics can be ruinous, people can be impoverished or enslaved and the god botherer doesn't really care enough to comment until.... PC writes abut the pagan origin of the festive season we are presently enjoying. Strange ones indeed, these hate filled christians.<BR/><BR/>LGMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-32713129151105619402008-12-19T19:16:00.000+13:002008-12-19T19:16:00.000+13:00PCYour argument might worth considering if you act...PC<BR/>Your argument might worth considering if you actually considered advent wreaths, advent calendars, the Christian Mass, the fact Christians turned a fearful festival into a happy one, the fact Christians retained the quite Ok practices of the solstice such as mistletoe and others things you list, and also instituted the practice of gift giving, visited the poor and sick and prisoners.<BR/><BR/>All your attitude suggests is that of a smug Libertarian, getting his cheap jollies with fallacious arguments against Christianity. YAWN.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-91442044944300112082008-12-19T17:51:00.000+13:002008-12-19T17:51:00.000+13:00So much for a holiday of benevolence and goodwill!...So much for a holiday of benevolence and goodwill!Callumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11029093534159739006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-32210811485608903712008-12-19T17:45:00.000+13:002008-12-19T17:45:00.000+13:00High praise that, coming from a person who demonst...High praise that, coming from a person who demonstrates every time he comments why he isn't welcome here.Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-5822783513459439502008-12-19T17:24:00.000+13:002008-12-19T17:24:00.000+13:00Exercise a bit of personal choice. Don't like it, ...Exercise a bit of personal choice. Don't like it, don't participate. Libertarians ..??? Pffft.. Narcissists and/or queers the lot of you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-35863690516706040152008-12-19T17:02:00.000+13:002008-12-19T17:02:00.000+13:00Read the quote from Rand again.Seems to me that th...Read the quote from Rand again.<BR/><BR/>Seems to me that the only ones not showing benevolence and goodwill in the comments are Christians.<BR/><BR/>Every time a coconut...eh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com