tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post5357688037361966096..comments2024-03-30T00:09:27.602+13:00Comments on Not PC: DOWN TO THE DOCTOR’S: Helmet Hitlers hammered [updated]Peter Cresswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-5890689485550100362012-03-28T08:59:32.353+13:002012-03-28T08:59:32.353+13:00As with many sports (skiing springs to mind as I d...As with many sports (skiing springs to mind as I do a lot of that) wearing a helmet causes a large number of people to think they are invincible and go faster, more recklessly etc than they would if not wearing a helmet and feeling a false sense of safety.bell hemletshttp://mybellhelmets.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-41798416618294139892012-03-18T13:48:58.610+13:002012-03-18T13:48:58.610+13:00Gee, I was just 'getting' this Liberty thi...Gee, I was just 'getting' this Liberty thing, why would there be mayhem?Ivor Novellonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-23353191997475269772012-03-16T18:23:50.591+13:002012-03-16T18:23:50.591+13:00Is a "not unreasonable hypothesis" a rea...Is a "not unreasonable hypothesis" a reasonable hypothesis? You think it's reasonable to infer from that study that helmet laws caused the things the author claims it does, rather than just coincided? Why do you think that? Don't answer that question, I know the answer. <br /><br />Anyway you contradict yourself by saying "but the facts presented are far from proof of cause and effect." Which is it? A logical inference or not?<br /><br />When you do your privatisation of the entire health sector and abolition of bicycle helmet reforms will you also abolish seat belt and motorcycle helmet laws? What about drink driving? Speeding? Driver licensing? Traffic lights suck, and Hitler had them in Nazi Germany, so they've got to go.<br /><br />How much death and mayhem is acceptable in the struggle for sweet sweet liberty?Hal Incandenzanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-47165770398029891782012-03-16T17:46:13.369+13:002012-03-16T17:46:13.369+13:00Oh, and Hal, heaven forbid I should appall the gho...Oh, and Hal, heaven forbid I should appall the ghost of Ayn Rand, so here goes:<br /><br />The study raises the not unreasonable hypothesis that excess deaths have resulted from the cycle helmet laws, probably via the observation that fewer people now seem to be cycling, but the facts presented are far from proof of cause and effect.<br /><br />There are a lot of variables that need to be taken into consideration, that clearly have not been accounted for in this study.Richard McGrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15389391427613887331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-53837536078520348432012-03-16T17:38:28.715+13:002012-03-16T17:38:28.715+13:00@Hal - for the record, I disagree with the precaut...@Hal - for the record, I disagree with the precautionary principle. It unnecessarily slows down the march of technology and improvements in human lifestyle. I'm just slightly surprised the lefties didn't trot it out at the time this law came in. I also think you need context. Were there studies to demonstrate that this law would not cost extra lives, or that the lives saved (or whatever parameter is used) exceed the lives lost - in short a cost-benefit study. I am not aware of any.<br /><br />I would love to know whether the benefits of the lid law outweigh the risks. Do you happen to know if they do? My understanding is that a woman, whose child suffered a head injury after falling from a bike, agitated and got some pollies to believe that the laws would be a good idea.<br /><br />The author of that article in the NZMJ commented on the way the lid laws are another encroachment on personal choice and freedom. The libertarian objection to such Nanny State legislation, i.e. a desire for greater personal autonomy, is coupled with a desire for greater individual responsibility. <br /><br />Which means: the Libz Party would couple abolition of lid laws with deregulation of the health sector (and most other other government sectors) so that the cost of health care (and thus the incentives to choose healthy lifestyles) was sheeted back to individuals, families and co-operatives.Richard McGrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15389391427613887331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-63713147711141415672012-03-16T10:05:45.239+13:002012-03-16T10:05:45.239+13:00I would love to offer that lovely blonde lady in ...I would love to offer that lovely blonde lady in that red dress with no helmet my German helmet which is more enjoyable to ride with, than riding on a bike with no helmet. I'm sure that she'll love it.Dirty Mindnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-26504547077317589242012-03-15T19:34:23.336+13:002012-03-15T19:34:23.336+13:00What weasly evasion. Rand would be appalled.
Do ...What weasly evasion. Rand would be appalled.<br /><br />Do you think there is a causal relationship or not? You want people to be tried for the deaths of innocent people on the basis of this "thorough study", and yet you're not brave enough to put your penny down. Odd.<br /><br />I like the way you deride the precautionary principle as a statist weapon (Hitler was in the process of developing one when the war ended apparently) and then suggest it be applied here. Do you agree with it or not?Hal Incandenzanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-22028008943331683982012-03-15T09:43:13.320+13:002012-03-15T09:43:13.320+13:00Incandescent Hal, you seem terrified of living in ...Incandescent Hal, you seem terrified of living in 'libboland'. <br /><br />I am curious, what is it like where you live?<br />Would you it were different? <br />If so, how?<br /><br />As you appear to abhor the concept of people being left alone, why to you hover around here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-16810563281387928652012-03-15T07:52:45.803+13:002012-03-15T07:52:45.803+13:00Hal, read the quote you used: "his study sugg...Hal, read the quote you used: "his study suggests..."<br /><br />Suggests, not proves. But raises serious questions.<br /><br />I note you didn't address my comment about the 'precautionary principle', a tactic used by statists and others to block change.Richard McGrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15389391427613887331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-61494518213394708102012-03-15T06:51:10.287+13:002012-03-15T06:51:10.287+13:00"his thorough study suggests cyclists were sa..."his thorough study suggests cyclists were safer without helmets. Which should surely expose 'helmet Hitlers' to the possibility of legal action for the deaths their law changes have caused."<br /><br />Sorry, are you suggesting a causal relationship or not? You seem confused.Hal Incandenzanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-36607207581161778402012-03-14T23:24:50.748+13:002012-03-14T23:24:50.748+13:00No Hal, I'm not saying association is causatio...No Hal, I'm not saying association is causation, but shouldn't we be applying that same precautionary principle that suggests if we don't know the risks of compulsory lid-wearing then perhaps we should refrain from forcing cyclists into it?Richard McGrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15389391427613887331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-91201726939973587002012-03-14T22:35:36.824+13:002012-03-14T22:35:36.824+13:00LOL, Hal. You've clearly never heard of moral ...LOL, Hal. You've clearly never heard of moral hazard.Callumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-34868492584174334362012-03-14T21:22:22.546+13:002012-03-14T21:22:22.546+13:00tspoon=STALIN!! Sound methodology is for Hitler!!...tspoon=STALIN!! Sound methodology is for Hitler!!<br /><br />A study has concluded bicycle helmets laws are bad m'kay? In libbo land that's all that's required for it to be sound and its conclusions logically impregnable. Even if it's utter bullshit. That's how you advocate freedom.Hal Incandenzanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-28385279995300132142012-03-14T09:37:37.202+13:002012-03-14T09:37:37.202+13:00Maybe we (they) should make people wear a helmet w...Maybe we (they) should make people wear a helmet while they're on their couch. That way, the extra danger clearly posed by having a small light thing on their head, will result in more premature deaths and we won't have to pay for operations for fat people.<br /><br /> What can I say? Misuse of statistics irks me, no matter the source. Basically it's lying, and the clearest sign of someone without either the data, or the intellectual horsepower to make their case. Or: they're just wrong. I'm not sure what the actual case is here. Don't care particularly. All I know is: If you can't make your case without BS stats, you really need to try harder.tspoonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-60181596631360759402012-03-13T23:26:46.727+13:002012-03-13T23:26:46.727+13:00I could'nt have said it better. Thanks Richard...I could'nt have said it better. Thanks Richard this helmet law is an excellent example of Nanny state gone mad and misusing of facts and simple common sense. Can you put up a link to our site: cycling health.org.nz<br />please?<br />Graeme TrassAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-85439653303426374712012-03-13T22:25:40.900+13:002012-03-13T22:25:40.900+13:00That law had the opposite effect on me, I bought a...That law had the opposite effect on me, I bought a bike to ride to work helmetless specifically to spite the bastards. That law plus Lindsays radio show, there was no turning back.<br /><br />Nice one Richard for taking this subject on and thanks for the link to 'Helmet Freedom'.<br /><br />WarwickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-43481449569131112152012-03-13T21:38:33.392+13:002012-03-13T21:38:33.392+13:00Yes, that was my little joke, I'm afraid.
Not...Yes, that was my little joke, I'm afraid.<br /><br />Not as risible as Hall himself, however, being congenitlally unable to actually address the issue in question.Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-4904438467313685242012-03-13T21:23:37.663+13:002012-03-13T21:23:37.663+13:00Given Richards photo it might be more apt to say h...Given Richards photo it might be more apt to say he will feel the wind on his head rather than the wind in his hairRab McDowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16864370891083101277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-37358468379086129182012-03-13T20:18:37.448+13:002012-03-13T20:18:37.448+13:00In libbo land, correlation is causation when the s...In libbo land, correlation is causation when the subsequent conclusions are what you so desperately want them to be. That's reason people! Also, comparing advocates of mandatory helmet laws to the murderer of 6 million people is perfectly reasonable and rational. It's also one (but by no means the only) reason why the Libertarianzah get 600 votes each election.Hal Incandenzanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-55297140947835770782012-03-13T16:16:22.947+13:002012-03-13T16:16:22.947+13:00Making kids ride on the road instead of the footpa...Making kids ride on the road instead of the footpath is also a killer.Reednoreply@blogger.com