tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post435001054988447341..comments2024-03-29T10:51:27.752+13:00Comments on Not PC: Easter through art Peter Cresswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-65183786385441822602018-04-04T08:45:53.420+12:002018-04-04T08:45:53.420+12:00Why then do churches display the cross, but not th...Why then do churches display the cross, but not the open tomb? When reenactments happen it's the crucifixion, not the discovery of the missing body.<br /><br />Christians are blessed by the blood of Christ, but not his rebirth. They eat his flesh drink his blood at every communion, but I've yet to see any sacrament that worships the empty tomb (or any other symbol of the resurrection)<br /><br />Christmas, now that celebrates birth, happiness, goodwill to all mankind, and "Baby Jesus, meek and mild" to quote Hitchens. <br /><br />Easter (at least traditionally) is all about death, sacrifice, sin, and repentance. <br /><br />It's not a happy celebration but a somber remembrance. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12528073402973889490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-39532502164934274902018-04-03T14:35:56.095+12:002018-04-03T14:35:56.095+12:00I'm not religious at all, but isn't it fai...I'm not religious at all, but isn't it fair to say the Christian theme for Easter is more about 'rebirth' than it is sacrifice? There's an element of sacrifice, and the sacrifice happens on the Friday - but the festivities conclude with the rebirth on the Sunday. It's how the story ends that counts more than how it starts. The coming of Spring after a hard Winter, bringing forth new life and better times was the original natural event aligned with Easter festivities, and that seems to me the dominant theme.MarkThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199883270652041621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-91965182018129496762018-04-02T13:36:57.207+12:002018-04-02T13:36:57.207+12:00The dates may not be the big deal they seem to man...The dates may not be the big deal they seem to many scholars, but being written so long after the events they purport to describe and and by others not involved with them means they are certainly a bigger deal than you seem to think.<br /><br />Because FWIW neither dates nor authorship (or lack thereof) are seriously disputed. Sure, the letters from Paul are probably earlier (the first being around 50AD or so), but Paul was a chancer who never witnessed a thing -- hence his need to make up the story of a special and personal command performance by the holy ghost acted out just for him -- and only around four of the letters with his name on were probably written by him.<br /><br />The gospel named Mark had to be later than this because he talks about the war in Judea (66-70AD) and the persecutions of Nero (after the fire of 64AD). And his was the gospel from which the events of those named Luke and Matthew were largely filched, which came a couple of decades or so later. So nearly a century after your boy was supposed to have been born. (Like me writing an eye-witness account of the events in Anzac Cove without the help of the histories written since.)<br /><br />Unless you know more than I do however, no serious scholars attributes Mark to Mark, nor gives any room to the idea it was dictated by him to Peter. Sorry.Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-82977147443937152462018-04-01T15:48:54.386+12:002018-04-01T15:48:54.386+12:00The dates of authorship are not the big deal you m...The dates of authorship are not the big deal you make them out to be. Likewise, authorship is not as disputed as you claim - Matthew was accepted for a long time as the author of Matthew with debate arising relatively recently as to whether he used Mark's Gospel (or not). It may date from the early 50's AD. Mark's Gospel was accepted by the early church as being written by John Mark and may date from the late 50's or early 60's. It is generally accepted he was being dictated to by Peter. Luke and Acts are generally accepted as being written by Luke and may again date from the late 50's rather than much later. John is accepted as being written by John. The earlier view of it being written in AD85 or later is now questioned with dates around 50AD and no later than 70AD being speculated. <br /><br />That the accounts are not identical is to their benefit - they are not written solely as a record of events and reflect the target audiences whose religious positions were all over the place.<br /><br />Regretfully in some instances, I recall quite clearly much of my painful youth from well over 40 years ago. Life changing events are not a common feature of my pretty ordinary life but I would suspect that things that were huge political upheavals for those involved would not pose a recollection problem where oral tradition was more important than today.<br /><br />3:16Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-7685789769831677462018-04-01T15:07:43.837+12:002018-04-01T15:07:43.837+12:00My memory of 1975 is of Edward Whitlam being sacke...My memory of 1975 is of Edward Whitlam being sacked as Prime Minister by an old drunk in a top hat.The Bunbury Bakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-70556476984444577692018-04-01T15:06:01.662+12:002018-04-01T15:06:01.662+12:00Good ole 3:16.
The gospels most assuredly do not ...Good ole 3:16.<br /><br />The gospels most assuredly do not withstand scrutiny.<br /><br />Where is the corroborating account of<br /><br />Matt 27:52<br /><br />Matt 27:51 - odd the Jews didn't notice that.<br /><br />Matt 4:8 - so Jesus thought the earth was flat?<br /><br />Matt 4:9 - how could Jesus be tempted by Satan offering him what was already his?<br /><br />The Bunbury Bakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-29992266512004357022018-04-01T10:44:19.309+12:002018-04-01T10:44:19.309+12:00You say that "the impact of the Gospel persis...You say that "the impact of the Gospel persists because its meant to by design - maybe its not mythology?"<br /><br />Maybe it's because it *is* mythology (mythology simply being other people's religion), and maybe that's because mythology and rituals *are* important. But that means they must have something to say better than calls for sacrifice.Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-3710915542860135842018-04-01T10:14:16.368+12:002018-04-01T10:14:16.368+12:00"People continue to find comfort and courage ..."People continue to find comfort and courage in Buddhism even when facing the most severe persecution for believing."<br /><br />"People continue to find comfort and courage in Hinduism even when facing the most severe persecution for believing."<br /><br />"People continue to find comfort and courage in Harry Potter even when facing the most severe persecution for believing."<br /><br />You see, in difficult times people can find comfort and courage in anything. But that doesn't speak to the veracity of that thing, and leaves aside whether they could actually find something better in which to find solace.<br /><br />I agree with Mick too, that the resurrection is the heart of the matter and without that the whole thing is bollocks. But even more bollocks is the ethic of sacrifice at the heart of the fiction, which is total anti-human bollocks.<br /><br />The point about many of those stories from pagan religion is to say that Christianity is not unique in either the terrritory it tries to cover nor the manner in which it has. And also to say (when one looks at the chronology) that in most cases the Christian fabulists have simply adopted whole a story already in existence, and usurped it.<br /><br />I agree too that Brian is hilarious, and the ending somewhat poor. But always looking on the bright side of life is far better than extolling human sacrifice.<br /><br />So Blessed be the Cheesemakers, and continue having a great break. Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-47616342138344179672018-04-01T10:05:48.524+12:002018-04-01T10:05:48.524+12:00The first gospel was Mark (not written by Mark but...The first gospel was Mark (not written by Mark but, like all the gospels written by an anonymous source) most likely written *at the earliest* in the seventh decade AD. So around four decades and more after the events it purports to describe. (The three other gospels, all mutually contradictory, were written decades later.)<br /><br />So how would you go recounting from memory events that happened in 1975?Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-64787737181529776642018-03-31T10:35:45.493+13:002018-03-31T10:35:45.493+13:00yes I can answer this one > the myths are just ...yes I can answer this one > the myths are just myths.<br />The myths are simply stories to bolster man's genetic tendency to be guided by a father figure, God, or here God's son. The father figure is a continuation of the real life father who in most cases is wished and seen as a profoundly good, and providing man, even self sacrificing. And so God bless you Mr.Cresswell this easter and always.paul scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15675247055484136242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-8339834700721353882018-03-31T08:08:13.645+13:002018-03-31T08:08:13.645+13:00Many decades? The gospels and New Testament lette...Many decades? The gospels and New Testament letters were not all written decades after the events and were often written within the lifetime of people who were about at the time of the events. One passage admonishes people who doubted because they saw the things written about or were aquainted with people who did. The gospels withstand scrutiny unless you expect them to read like a newspaper article of today. <br /><br />3:16Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-51893022133411085932018-03-30T18:02:39.226+13:002018-03-30T18:02:39.226+13:00PS: Just noticed an admin has deleted your comment...PS: Just noticed an admin has deleted your comment above. Not sure why. Sorry.Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-68077478188034094712018-03-30T14:17:11.041+13:002018-03-30T14:17:11.041+13:00The impact of the Gospel persists because its mean...The impact of the Gospel persists because its meant to by design - maybe its not mythology? People continue to find comfort and courage in it even when facing the most severe persecution for believing. In many dark and dangerous places it makes a difference and the ideas around ethics, honesty, compassion, education and service outside political groupings and are seen for the first time. It also frees people from the religious devotions that smack of legalism for political control rather than personal benefit.<br /><br />I agree with Mick; the resurrection is the heart of the matter and without that the whole thing is bollocks. No one seriously argues that Jesus was still alive when taken down from the cross and were he so, with a body being available, the Jews would have been prancing about for weeks and it would be trumpeted loud and clear in their theology. The impact of Jesus was such that the Jewish leaders persecuted the newly forming church to try to make the pesky thing die but we see they were unsuccessful despite brutal punishment being handed out. People don't have to believe it but writing the mystery off as superstition that did not happen because they don't like the idea of it sells it well short. Atheists cannot sustain the burden of proof for their beliefs any more than I can for God but I've seen plenty of signs of the practical changes in attitude that come about when people looking for meaning get the Gospel.<br /><br />The other thing I take issue with, at a distance because I haven't studied the old "pagan" religions, is that there are many similarities with Christianity so its pinched a bunch of theology that preceded it. What I found comforting having read a bit of stuff by theologians that have studied ancient texts and religions, the likes of John Walton, is that having some expectations of parallels they found the ancient stuff was vastly different from the Bible accounts despite some superficial points you would see as similar at first glance. As is frequently the case the devil is in the detail and philosophical issues as deep as these are not well served by attempts to make it all look dodgy by way of a shallow critique.<br /><br />We were chatting about The Life of Brian today over hot cross buns after church and it was a pretty popular watch. Michael Palin writes about the film in his long book "The Python Years". They found it difficult to make, it got fiddled with over a long period of time after supposed completion, and Palin thought the ending was poor (as I recall). I think its generally hilarious but tend to agree with Palin about the ending which leaves the character of Brian hanging.<br /><br />3:16Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-22080830773610711552018-03-30T14:02:42.533+13:002018-03-30T14:02:42.533+13:00Funny too that those who wrote about those they sa...Funny too that those who wrote about those they said saw Him waited many decades before bursting into 'print.'<br />So the myth only began being made a very long while after the alleged events. Take as much as you want from that.<br />PS: Ah, Peter. Just saw that.Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-71236842451569143222018-03-30T13:56:27.856+13:002018-03-30T13:56:27.856+13:00Idiocy always bothers me, Mick.
Have a great holid...Idiocy always bothers me, Mick.<br />Have a great holiday. ;^)Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-13036407017466270882018-03-30T13:48:46.855+13:002018-03-30T13:48:46.855+13:00"They knew what they had seen". Well, in..."They knew what they had seen". Well, in our own times, after Elvis Presley died, there were a great many who could not believe that, and swore they had seen him alive. There was a similar case after Zapata the Mexican rebel leader was killed in April 1919 - many swore they saw him afterwards. And these were known real people, rather the mythical person Jesus.<br />Largely the christian myth *does* lie there; if you want to believe that sort of thing, go ahead. It's when there is wowserism and when there is interference, like the euthanasia question in the name of Jesus, that it goes beyond niggling.<br />PeterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1658727909754956592018-03-30T13:34:49.129+13:002018-03-30T13:34:49.129+13:00The comment removed above, to which you've rep...The comment removed above, to which you've replied was signed " Peter", in the same manner that "Mick" above has<br />Regards, PeterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-6624898763871211722018-03-30T08:44:57.997+13:002018-03-30T08:44:57.997+13:00'This' did walk again, spoke, ate with fri...'This' did walk again, spoke, ate with friends. They didn't just go back to their jobs, they knew what they had seen and heard and spoke it, to their own hurt.<br />The question worth pondering is why does it still bother you that it persists? If you don't (or don't want) to believe it should rest there.<br />Somehow it niggles, and must be argued against. Happy pondering.<br /><br />Mick<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-23407300740957552912018-03-29T19:25:38.027+13:002018-03-29T19:25:38.027+13:00How and why the mythology of Jesus has persisted i...How and why the mythology of Jesus has persisted into the 21st century is a question worth pondering over the break. Maybe others could offer some thoughts too?<br /><br />I'd like to think the Cats can go one better than last year's Prelim Final. Mind you, we'll need to find a back line very quickly.<br /><br />Thanks for the comment. I's wish you a happy easter too, but being anonymous I have no idea who you are. :-)<br /><br />Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-71332771759509931512018-03-29T17:37:52.046+13:002018-03-29T17:37:52.046+13:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com