tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post1701899918560281973..comments2024-03-29T10:51:27.752+13:00Comments on Not PC: It’s Bastille Day! [updated]Peter Cresswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-57918392759932777702009-07-15T00:59:47.966+12:002009-07-15T00:59:47.966+12:00Fine post PC. You get to the essence in so few wo...Fine post PC. You get to the essence in so few words. Yes, it's important to let egalite & fraternite look after themselves.<br /><br />- Sam PAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-57881008221742937512009-07-15T00:50:21.848+12:002009-07-15T00:50:21.848+12:00Blogger Marm said...
Great post as usual Pet...Blogger Marm said...<br /><br /> Great post as usual Peter, though you are maybe a bit trigger-happy on them (ehh...us) French, and a bit over-caricatural in opposing Locke to Rousseau.<br /> History is full of paradoxes, and particularly this period of Enlightnment and violences.<br /> Rousseau was one, and as sang Gavroche Voltaire was another. From Locke to Voltaire then through to A.Smith and B.Franklin, it sounds to me much more like a swiss-army knife of good-will thinkers, most of them writing to/reading each other if not being simply friends, than a simple blade with the English and Locke on one side and Rousseau and the French (and the Swiss of course, as is Rousseau) on the other.<br /> More than a matter of " without a political philosophy to guide it", it can be a matter of "too many competing ones", when the situation becomes too challenging.<br /> As AngloAmerikan comments above, the situations in both places were quite different; what you get when you try to put in practice these (by then) new theories depends IHMO as much, and probably more, on the context (AngloA summarises it well), the strengths of the reactionary forces (remote UK vs. neighbor/cousin monarchies and the Church), the help you get from the outside (a lot of French help for the US vs. nothing), the size of the audience you have to convince (few thousands or tens of vs. few millions) etc etc.<br /><br /> Another funny paradox: by then the American took into consideration the lessons of the Protectorate, shortly thereafter the French ignored it.<br /> 180ish year later, the French learned that you can't impose the government you want over a communism-sympathizing country, shortly thereafter the US tried anyway ;-(<br /><br /> Regards<br /><br /> PierrePeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16982333762888256636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-57767166088436370052009-07-15T00:40:06.287+12:002009-07-15T00:40:06.287+12:00This comment has been removed by the author.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16982333762888256636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-69353059283967817322009-07-14T15:03:47.490+12:002009-07-14T15:03:47.490+12:00SAND: "Because of my old patriotic leftovers ...SAND: "<i>Because of my old patriotic leftovers I felt like disagreeing with some points of the French Revolution.</i>"<br /><br />I felt sure you would. :)<br /><br />"<i>The French Revolution and the Marseillaise should not be symbols of Liberty.<br />The Art about the French Revolution should definitely be . . .</i>"<br /><br />I think that's almost exactly right. The yearning was there (as so wonderfully expressed in the art, and the spirit of the anthem), but not the application (as reflected so chillingly in the guillotine, and in the anthem's words).Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-48301572117171682402009-07-14T14:47:40.777+12:002009-07-14T14:47:40.777+12:00To be fair the American revolutionaries had a bit ...To be fair the American revolutionaries had a bit of an advantage over the French. First, their heritage was essentially British and they had learned a thing or two from Cromwell who is a recognised hero of liberty. They also had vast lands populated only by easily suppressed savages and full of natural resources to exploit. They weren’t surrounded by competent mortal enemies. They also had great plantations and slaves to work them and more where they came from. They had free resources, free land, free labour, hell it was hard to go wrong. You’d have to be Spanish to mess this up. This gave them a lot of free time in order to perfect their lofty ideas around liberty, freedom and the pursuit of happiness. Ideas we can admire today.AngloAmerikanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02002362092073890146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-78108530336290535852009-07-14T14:41:57.233+12:002009-07-14T14:41:57.233+12:00And yet The Marseillaise moves me enormously, Sand...And yet The Marseillaise moves me enormously, Sandrine. It's a gorgeous piece of music.<br /><br />As is The Star Spangled Banner which also moves me.<br /><br />After my own, which I love to bits -- a sentiment not necessarily shared around these parts! ;) -- they are my two favourite anthems by far.Susnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-65563633425019988722009-07-14T14:33:06.402+12:002009-07-14T14:33:06.402+12:00Because of my old patriotic leftovers I felt like ...Because of my old patriotic leftovers I felt like disagreeing with some points of the French Revolution. But Even if you summarized it very succintly your point is deadly true.<br /><br />Because I think I am a kind of bicultural person, I guess I can feel the essence of the anglosaxon way of thinking in parallel of the french one. What I have to say about it, is that the inheritant mechanisms from both revolutions are defintely not the same. The anglosaxon one is mobile and the french one is extremely static.<br /><br />The French Revolution and the Marseillaise should not be symbols of Liberty.<br /><br />The Art about the French Revolution should definitely be one.<br /><br />Thank you Peter for this beautiful and so true post.<br /><br />Sandrine.Sandhttp://fr33agents.ning.com/profile/sandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-70622243913595938302009-07-14T11:59:46.631+12:002009-07-14T11:59:46.631+12:00The halfwits in Frog-land were rather foolish with...The halfwits in Frog-land were rather foolish with the ushering in of a Dictatorship and mass murder. <br /><br />As you say, Peter, the froggie fools missed the point of the American revolution entirely! ha ha!; the chaps in the US certainly knew what they were doing.Elijah Lineberrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-27255425246864395352009-07-14T11:46:23.906+12:002009-07-14T11:46:23.906+12:00Joyeux Jour de La Bastrille a touts les amis fanca...Joyeux Jour de La Bastrille a touts les amis fancaises en Nouvelle Zelande!!Dave Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15264331694328629975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-53297553202516627082009-07-14T11:13:43.593+12:002009-07-14T11:13:43.593+12:00I loved this post Peter.
No revolution, no matte...I loved this post Peter.<br /><br /><i> No revolution, no matter how justified, and no movement, no matter how popular, has ever succeeded without a political philosophy to guide it, to set its direction and goal.</i><br /><br />Yes. And that is why it is so sad to watch the recent bloodied attempts at freedom in Burma (can't spell the new name) and Iran. They're so close, yet, so far away from attaining freedom, not only because of the power of their oppressors, the first Communism, the second a Theocracy, but also because, under it all, you feel they have a yearning for 'freedom', but I suspect no idea what that actually is, and thus were doomed from inception.<br /><br />There's certainly something to build on, though, and God, the Iranian uprising is a sign of real hope I did not think would exist, but how to get the philosophy into the minds of enough people in those countries, when we move further and further away from a society built on the freedom of the individual in our own country.<br /><br />Rambling now ...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07707604974739887751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-45360618948669652002009-07-14T11:11:10.660+12:002009-07-14T11:11:10.660+12:00The painting you have used here is called Liberty ...The painting you have used here is called Liberty Leading the People, by Eugene Delacroix.<br /><br />I saw it first hand in the Louvre in Paris three weeks ago. Its absolutely stunning. Brought a tear to the eye.Willienoreply@blogger.com