tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post115438141968658260..comments2024-03-29T10:51:27.752+13:00Comments on Not PC: Russel Norman, Jared Diamond & Easter Island: "Bunk."Peter Cresswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-3920047539387367932012-03-02T13:15:36.016+13:002012-03-02T13:15:36.016+13:00I am very sorry to say that your theory is undermi...I am very sorry to say that your theory is undermined by a huge body of coherent archeological evidence.<br />Easter highland population faced a harsh collapse right after ending deforestation. There is a very good report in national geographic that illustrates recent findings that confirm by the detail the collapse theory of Diamond and others.<br /><br />Agriculture did not work on eastern island. And as they removed tree they could not fish pelagic fishes anylonger (need wood to build boat and also houses by the way)...and there are very little coastal fish on this island. So yes they were starving and archeology has definite proof.<br /><br />Unfortanately i do not find a complete video for free on the net, i saw it on swedish SVTplay some months ago<br /><br />http://natgeotv.com/asia/easter-island-underworld/videos/easter-island-underworldUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02781313941686954000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1154584914476450172006-08-03T18:01:00.000+12:002006-08-03T18:01:00.000+12:00PC, the Auckland University "2006 Sir Douglas Robb...PC, the Auckland University "2006 Sir Douglas Robb lecture series" is scheduled for September 20th to 22nd (3 evenings). It is indeed Professor Jared Diamond. Lets book the back seat again this year at BL28 lecture theater for this interesting series.<BR/><BR/>"Annual Robb lecture series, given in 2006 by Professor Jared Diamond"<BR/><BR/>http://www.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/about/events/2006/09/lectures/robb.cfmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1154567765881960522006-08-03T13:16:00.000+12:002006-08-03T13:16:00.000+12:00I'm quoting facts as well PC. Just visitors report...I'm quoting facts as well PC. Just visitors report from a very well-regarded and supported paper.<BR/><BR/>I didn't know you quoted your facts from the New Scientists (just thought they were your own interpretations), so I'll have a look at the New Scientist article.<BR/><BR/>But at least we agree that Jared Diamond made his facts up (which the paper I mentioned very convincingly demonstrates).Berend de Boerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11433622686361556089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1154556399513671472006-08-03T10:06:00.000+12:002006-08-03T10:06:00.000+12:00"I have to disagree with certain facts you mention...<I>"I have to disagree with certain facts you mention in this post."</I><BR/><BR/>Best you send your disagreement to 'New Scientist,' Berend. The facts and scientific arguments are their's and the scientists they cite.Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1154556205715400472006-08-03T10:03:00.000+12:002006-08-03T10:03:00.000+12:00I believe that's three questions there, Chris.1. "...I believe that's three questions there, Chris.<BR/><BR/>1. <I>"Are you pointing out that there are problems with Jared Diamond's explanation, in the sense that he over-states his case..."?</I><BR/><BR/>I'm pointing out what 'New Scientist' is pointing out: the problems with Jared Diamond's argument is that it's based on something that's not true. That's about as serious a problem as an argument can have.<BR/><BR/>I've <A HREF="http://pc.blogspot.com/2006/06/learning-from-easter-island-something.html" REL="nofollow">previously pointed out</A> <A HREF="http://pc.blogspot.com/2005/05/collapsed-jared-diamonds-arguments.html" REL="nofollow">more than once</A> that even if Diamond's account were true (which it isn't), and if it did indeed show industrial society in microcosm (which it doesn't) what our Jared is describing in 'Collapse' is the process of environmental degradation characterised by the tragedy of the commons, and the way you permananently fix the tragedy of the commons is with secure property rights. <BR/><BR/>2. <I>"...are you just saying ...there's no problem to worry about?"</I><BR/><BR/>I'm saying that if Jared Diamond's account is wrong (which 'New Scientist' says it is), then for Russel Norman to base anything on it would be foolish.<BR/><BR/>3. <I>"...are you just saying we shouldn't give a shit about our environment..."</I>?<BR/><BR/>Is that really a serious question?Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1154548552167874332006-08-03T07:55:00.000+12:002006-08-03T07:55:00.000+12:00Are you pointing out that there are problems with ...Are you pointing out that there are problems with Jared Diamond's explanation, in the sense that he over-states his case, or are you just saying we shouldn't give a shit about our environment because there's no problem to worry about?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1154388043185191802006-08-01T11:20:00.000+12:002006-08-01T11:20:00.000+12:00This is a really good article as well: http://www....This is a really good article as well: http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/EE%2016-34_Peiser.pdf<BR/><BR/>I have to disagree with certain facts you mention in this post. In particular Easter Island was very fertile according to visitors: Here a few quotes while I tried to update the Wikipedia entry, but as you will see it the Wikipedia entry is really, really twisted. It has slowly gravitated to all Diamond again:<BR/><BR/><I>Jakob Roggeveen reported that Easter Island was exceptionally fertile, producing large quantities of bananas, potatoes and thick sugar-cane. In 1786 M. de La PĂ©rouse visited Easter Island and his gardener declared that "three day's work a year" would be enough to support the population.<BR/><BR/>Rollin, a major of the French expedition to Easter Island in 1786, wrote, "Instead of meeting with men exhausted by famine... I found, on the contrary, a considerable population, with more beauty and grace than I afterwards met in any other island; and a soil, which, with very little labour, furnished excellent provisions, and in an abundance more than sufficient for the consumption of the inhabitants." (Heyerdahl & Ferdon, 1961:57).</I><BR/><BR/>Wikipedia is an utter failure for many subjects. You just can't get an objective article on certain subjects.Berend de Boerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11433622686361556089noreply@blogger.com