tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post112373468072706945..comments2024-03-29T10:51:27.752+13:00Comments on Not PC: What have we learned today about our elected representativesPeter Cresswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-13536979438588948582008-05-13T06:04:00.000+12:002008-05-13T06:04:00.000+12:00the little fat fuck :)haha cuteeemiranda & jess:we...the little fat fuck :)<BR/>haha cuteee<BR/>miranda & jess:<BR/>we dont date guys with cute haircuts and little peepees<BR/>:lAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123825006877816062005-08-12T17:36:00.000+12:002005-08-12T17:36:00.000+12:00In my opinion the acceptance of tax-victim monies ...In my opinion the acceptance of tax-victim monies has only one morally acceptable justification: when the stolen monies - every penny - is then used by the receiver to advance the idea of abolishing, or putting into effect the ending of, compulsory taxation. The monies received must *already* have been stolen/taxed though; one could never justify legislating to tax people for this purpose.<BR/><BR/>Libertarianz policy allows it to use the broadcasting allocation (i.e. the already stolen monies) in this way. The party wants to end all compulsory taxation, plain and simple. All other parties contesting this election have self-confessed that they want to tax and redistribute, tax and redistribute, albeit in varying degrees and for the benefit of different individuals/groups. There is therefore no moral justification for *their* use of the allocated broadcasting monies (or of any other taxpaid funding for that matter), and every moral justification for the Libz's use of it<BR/><BR/>If Libertarianz were to use the funding in question to advertise party policy *other* than its anti-tax one however, then (and only then) one might be able to argue hypocrisy. Just maybe. <BR/><BR/>For what it is worth, I believe that the above explained "exception" to the don't-accept-taxpayer-money rule applies not only to political parties, but to all organisations and individuals. For instance, if a beneficiary were to use every dollar of his/her benefit to advertise the immorality of taxation and/or to pay for peaceful activities that will ultimately abolish compulsory taxation (and therefore his/her own benefit), then they too would be morally justified in accepting tax-victim monies.<BR/><BR/>So; what does the above teach us? Well, as with the application of ANY principle, *context* is what decides the rationality of putting the principle into practice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123817170755856012005-08-12T15:26:00.000+12:002005-08-12T15:26:00.000+12:00Blair, as you agree that "obviously electioneering...Blair, as you agree that "obviously electioneering with public money is corrupt" I look forward to your telling your colleague Mr Hide what you think of his decision to have the taxpayer pay for his campaigning brochures. This is not about "putting together a policy platform with public funds" as you well know, this is about a little man that decided he could get way with having the taxpayer fund part of his electorate campaign just by choosing to hav the parliamentary crest on the front page of his brochure. That's dishonest, and your dissembling shows you know it.<BR/><BR/>And the attempt by Anonymous to continue trying to blur the distinction between, as I said before, being <I>prohibited</I> from using your own money to buy broadcasting time, and simply <I>not bothering</I> to use your own money to pay for electorate brochures (because you have the taxpayers' cheque book handy) suggests he/she understands the difference too.Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123812827360680992005-08-12T14:13:00.000+12:002005-08-12T14:13:00.000+12:00Public funding of a parliament to disseminate idea...Public funding of a parliament to disseminate ideas is probably the most crucial role that taxpayers' money can play.<BR/><BR/>If MPs have no recourse to public funds, the only people who do have it are the ruling party. That is incredibly dangerous.<BR/><BR/>Obviously electioneering with public money is corrupt, but if MPs can't put forward a policy platform with public funds we may as well all give up and appoint Helen Clark Dictator-for-Life, because that's the reality of what you are suggesting. Democracy may cost money, but dictatorships cost even more.Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865567065778234500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123811202033215242005-08-12T13:46:00.000+12:002005-08-12T13:46:00.000+12:00"If we rejected the money we would be turning down..."If we rejected the money we would be turning down an opportunity to advance the ideas of liberty while taxes we contributed were spent advancing the socialism advocated by the other 19 parties. Would that be rational?"<BR/><BR/>Would it be rational then for any other party to reject the money that it has available to it? If it's not rational for the Libz to reject it for the purpose of pursuing their political agenda then it's not rational for any other party to reject it to pursue their political agenda. Thus in their own self-interest they don't. So by saying it's rational to accept it you can't say that "It's OK for Libz to do it" but when another party does it "they are corrupt arseholes".<BR/><BR/>"To expect Libertarianz to not make use of anything that the state interfers with using money that was stolen from libertarian tax payers is ridiculous"<BR/><BR/>Then to expect classical liberals (ACT) or Tories (National) or social democrats (Labour) not to use money that was taken from taxpayers is also ridiculous.<BR/><BR/>I think we all agree, even PC, on the point that political parties using taxpayers money is bad (even if what they use it for is completely within the "rules"). <BR/><BR/>So the objection here that many commenters have had towards the vitriolic attack against Rodney Hide - is that the Libz also have accepted, (and are willing and able to justify that acceptance) of tax payers money.<BR/><BR/>Therefore **don't abuse others when they do it**.<BR/><BR/>I say again that I *wish* the Libz hadn't accepted that money. If they hadn't, you would have carte blanche to rip into every other political party. You don't now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123807967990881162005-08-12T12:52:00.000+12:002005-08-12T12:52:00.000+12:00Why take the $20k? You might as well ask, "Why dri...Why take the $20k? <BR/><BR/>You might as well ask, "Why drive on public roads?" or "Why go to public universities?"<BR/><BR/>To expect Libertarianz to not make use of anything that the state interfers with using money that was stolen from libertarian tax payers is ridiculous. It is a typical manifestation of altruist ethics - a moral code that calls on men to do whatever is against their self-interest; that holds that the more self-destroying an action is the more moral it must be. <BR/><BR/>Most libertarians in NZ subscribe to the ideas of Ayn Rand. We believe in the principled pursuit of our rational self-interest; that there is no rational justification for "martyrdom" in the name of some principle when the ultimate standard that the principles you live by should be judged is how well they advance your life and the ends you choose.<BR/><BR/>If we rejected the money we would be turning down an opportunity to advance the ideas of liberty while taxes we contributed were spent advancing the socialism advocated by the other 19 parties. Would that be rational? Was your question rational?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123806688866692642005-08-12T12:31:00.000+12:002005-08-12T12:31:00.000+12:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123803708263999672005-08-12T11:41:00.000+12:002005-08-12T11:41:00.000+12:00Yes it was my question.Peter - you're still using ...Yes it was my question.<BR/><BR/>Peter - you're still using $20,000 of tax payers money to fund a political campaign. It's that simple. You should have refused it on principle and used $20K of your own money on other campaign material such as billboards or whatever.<BR/><BR/>When the Libz' campaign budget is around $25K total, accepting another $20k and thus almost doubling your campaign fund, may just have been too hard for you to refuse.<BR/><BR/>That's government for you - I wish you didn't accept the money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123802424773166462005-08-12T11:20:00.000+12:002005-08-12T11:20:00.000+12:00ANONYMOUS: are you sure that was ~your~ question r...ANONYMOUS: are you sure that was ~your~ question rather than that of another anonymite?<BR/><BR/>You can read <A HREF="http://www.libertarianz.org.nz/?libzpr=318" REL="nofollow">here</A> what we said at the time if you're interested in accuracy. See if you can work out why being <I>prohibited</I> from using your own money to buy broadcasting time (which is what you're asking me about about) is different from <I>not bothering</I> to use your own money (which is what Rodney has done).<BR/><BR/>BLAIR: What you said above is just appalling. You said as if you meant it, "[PC] may be of the opinion that it is electioneering, and it may possibly help in that regard, but if you say an MP can't use public funds to communicate policy then you create an imbalance in the democratic weight of that MP's representation as an equal member of parliament."<BR/><BR/>You have got to be kidding me. <BR/><BR/>Print your sentence out, read it out loud to yourself, and then keep it in your wallet and take it out occasionally just to remind yourself how once you had occasion to argue that taxpayers should be forced to pony up to resolve "an imbalance in the democratic weight of that MP's representation," whatever the fuck that means. If you still truly stand by that statement after a week or two of further study, then 1) it's an indication of how far from a party of principle ACT really are, and 2) you and I have nothing in common, and nothing to talk about.<BR/><BR/>If you decide to resile from it, please feel free to come back. But not until then.Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123801027208137522005-08-12T10:57:00.000+12:002005-08-12T10:57:00.000+12:00Peter, you still haven't answered my question."Ple...Peter, you still haven't answered my question.<BR/><BR/>"Please articulate to me why the Libz agreeing to take $20,000 of taxpayers money to fund their campaign is so much different."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123784493750094752005-08-12T06:21:00.001+12:002005-08-12T06:21:00.001+12:00James:If you don't have the wit to recognise deris...James:<BR/><BR/>If you don't have the wit to recognise derisive sarcasm when it's aimed in your direction... As that great feminist Scarlett O'Hara would say "fiddle dee dee".Craig Ranapiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923246310584658857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123784473958877262005-08-12T06:21:00.000+12:002005-08-12T06:21:00.000+12:00James:If you don't have the wit to recognise deris...James:<BR/><BR/>If you don't have the wit to recognise derisive sarcasm when it's aimed in your direction... As that great feminist Scarlett O'Hara would say "fiddle dee dee".Craig Ranapiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923246310584658857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123763248542827582005-08-12T00:27:00.000+12:002005-08-12T00:27:00.000+12:00You really are an offensive little fucker aren't y...You really are an offensive little fucker aren't you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123763111934425142005-08-12T00:25:00.000+12:002005-08-12T00:25:00.000+12:00James, as you are a self-declared idiot, I wonder ...James, as you are a self-declared idiot, I wonder just what experience you might have with anybody from the human race?<BR/><BR/>Please sort yourself out if you ever plan to re-visit here, and please do so before you come back.Peter Cresswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699845031503699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123762123419122442005-08-12T00:08:00.000+12:002005-08-12T00:08:00.000+12:00Craig...as you are a self declared gay man I am wo...Craig...as you are a self declared gay man I am wondering just what experiece you have with cunts,rabid Libz types or otherwise...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123761735385475802005-08-12T00:02:00.000+12:002005-08-12T00:02:00.000+12:00I agree Craig, Doctor Who was a much better watch ...I agree Craig, Doctor Who was a much better watch (not so sure about your cunt remarks).<BR/><BR/>I flicked over to 3 during the ad breaks, God... it was horrible. None of the "leaders" they brought in were commercially viable, Helen was performing her usual condescending service, Win-Chung Peters was looking and behaving like a rodent. I've gone completely off Brash now, he's making National look like a carbon clone of Labour, back-tracking on his once promising remarks. Dunne, Anderton, Hide and Fitzsimons achieved no change in my esteme. Poor Tariana Turia looked like the was suffering from a panic attack.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123754595197921142005-08-11T22:03:00.000+12:002005-08-11T22:03:00.000+12:00Watched Dr. Who instead. Suspect the leader's deb...Watched Dr. Who instead. Suspect the leader's debate would have been vastly improved with a homicidal Dalek on the loose - frankly, I've decided to give Three News a miss after Mark Jennings decided to roll over and play dead in the face of blatant political meddling by judicial fiat. If Three isn't willing to stand up for its own editorial integrity & press freedom, don't expect me to support it or its advertisers. <BR/><BR/>BTW, James I regard being called a "cunt" as the highest compliment. It is a delightful organ that has contributed much pleasure and utility to the human race.Craig Ranapiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923246310584658857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123751816420309672005-08-11T21:16:00.000+12:002005-08-11T21:16:00.000+12:00Libz need to get in the real world. Their holier t...Libz need to get in the real world. Their holier than thou bullshit puts them at the joke end of the political spectrum.A pity really as many of us agree with you but hate the fact you are stupid cunts!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123749208526414572005-08-11T20:33:00.000+12:002005-08-11T20:33:00.000+12:00I found it a pity the Libertarianz didn't went to ...I found it a pity the Libertarianz didn't went to court as well, just to show the farce of it all. Or just show up at the door step with all the other parties.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes you can be too principles.Berend de Boerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11433622686361556089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123745763529723442005-08-11T19:36:00.000+12:002005-08-11T19:36:00.000+12:00PC - I think you were being a bit PC there. Don't...PC - I think you were being a bit PC there. Don't hold back! Tell us what you really think.<BR/><BR/>Blair has a point. Use the system to change the system. But it would be nice to hear him condemn his own spending and the rules that allow thatsagenzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01744450094262287770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123741028325588062005-08-11T18:17:00.000+12:002005-08-11T18:17:00.000+12:00articulate? Does that mean explaining it using te...articulate? Does that mean explaining it using terms like "little fat fuck", "overweight", "Dunce and .. Neanderton" "fat fuck"?<BR/><BR/>That's an interesting use of the word "articulate"<BR/><BR/>Don't hold anything back Peter - you may do yourself an injury. <BR/><BR/>Is it fair to say Rodney has spent more time than you on Mutton's story, the IRD enquiry and tracking and exposing wasteful spending? I think you may have been a bit harsh given Rodney's record.<BR/><BR/>Your indignation would be better applied to the transgressions of a far grander scale executed by the current government.<BR/><BR/>Still, a dollar is a dollar. <BR/><BR/>I'll reserve judgement until I have more information.ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123740991323071882005-08-11T18:16:00.000+12:002005-08-11T18:16:00.000+12:00Well where would you draw the line? You may be of...Well where would you draw the line? You may be of the opinion that it is electioneering, and it may possibly help in that regard, but if you say an MP can't use public funds to communicate policy then you create an imbalance in the democratic weight of that MP's representation as an equal member of parliament.<BR/><BR/>The fact is that if the cow is already dead you may as well eat some steak. If Rodney doesn't spend that money then Cullen will be sure to waste it somewhere else. Personally, I think advocating for lower taxes, more freedom and greater individual responsibility is quite possibly one of the best uses of my stolen money I can think of. Go Rodney.Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865567065778234500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123740494993732282005-08-11T18:08:00.000+12:002005-08-11T18:08:00.000+12:00I see your point, PC.But please articluate to me w...I see your point, PC.<BR/><BR/>But please articluate to me why the Libz agreeing to take $20,000 of taxpayers money to fund their campaign is so much different.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123739894062652572005-08-11T17:58:00.000+12:002005-08-11T17:58:00.000+12:00Watch Clark, Brash, Hide, Peters, Fitzsimons, Ande...Watch Clark, Brash, Hide, Peters, Fitzsimons, Anderton and Dunne-for on TV all at once?<BR/><BR/>While I probably should watch it, Doctor Who on Prime is a hell of a lot more temptingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11906042.post-1123737088335258442005-08-11T17:11:00.000+12:002005-08-11T17:11:00.000+12:00Thanks God you didn't post a picture of him... Bra...Thanks God you didn't post a picture of him... Brash has gone up in my estimation by distancing himself from Hide. <BR/><BR/>What debate tonight? It will be an infomercial at best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com